How many numskulls will go?

It's over at Indy, maybe the whole country.......

Fickle, thy name is motorsports fans..

Goodyear is #1 in racing....LOL!

 

same thing in other sports...peopel will still go.

 

They just couldn't figure out how long they had to resolve the debate in a town that doesn't keep time like the rest of the country.

They need to announce race times in GMT. Nobody can figure out Indy local time.

 

I am a race fan. I disagreee with this assessment completely. I plan to attend the USGP and and frankly I consider your comments to be those of a "numbskull".

F1 did not embarrass Indianapolis, they Michelin teams embarrassed themselves and F1 in general. Michelin admitted this by reimbursing all that paid to attend, and for the first 20,000 they gave an additional two free tickets. The Speedway did everything they could that day, it was F1 and FOCA that made the final decisions. Unfortunetely the damage is done and may be irreversable.

This may be the last USGP at Indy, I really hope not, because The Speedway has been the best venue since the days at Watkins Glen. I wonder if we will see some announcement later this year that some ISC track will be the future of F1 in the USA since they appear to be making the attempt to control road racing in the USA. I hope not, nothing they own except Daytona comes close to the Indianapolis Motor Speedway in quality.

I hope those of you that complained about the time zone in Indy never travel to Europe and totally confuse yourselves. God help you if you travel to Arizona in the summer.

FYI, be thankful that ticket prices for the USGP at Indianapolis actually fall in the middle of all F1 locations for the year. And you get real toilets for the price of admission!

 

Agreed in general, but FOCA has been renamed. I believe it is FOA now. However it was the FIA that was mostly involved in the USGP situation.

 

Indy now goes by daylight savings time starting last fall.
My wife is a travel agent and the rooms in the area filled up sooner than years past if that's an indication of attendance.

 

Yeah, but I heard the ice capades are in town too

Seriously, I'd go if it were at all possible. I might be able to get away for a day, but can't do a whole weekend right now.

 

I agree with you.

But let's ask the question that has been asked a million times:
Where is the best venue for an F1 race in the USA (assuming there will be only ONE race a year here).

You go to Laguna Seca, and folks on the east have a hard time going, you go to Watkins Glen and folks on the left coast have a hard time going.
(I mean the average F1 fan, not the 'rich' or 'die-hard' fan).

Unless you go to Elkhart Lake or Mid-Ohio, where else is centrally located AND near a LARGE city ? Atlanta ? Not really central.
All things considered, Indy seems to be about the best venue there is, for the time being.

NOW we get into the good ol discussion of street courses like Vegas... or Dallas, or can something be made around Chicago proper ?

 

Not enough racing culture in Chitown, I'm afraid. Meadowdale and Chicago Speedway closed shop a while ago.

As pathetic as the F1 Indy track is, it is the best solution given your reason in a scenario where the US has only one race (altogether different if you allow a race on both coasts).

Second best is Las Vegas and what I'd like to see happen should Indy get the axe.

But quite frankly money talks and in the end the parties involved will get over their egos and Indy will get renewed. It just makes too much sense for everybody.

 

I for one will not be there. I am on vacation but will not be spending my money in Indy for the 1st time since the USGP came to Indy.

Instead it looks like a vacation in Lost Wages for myself

 

my friend went last year with his gf's brother and was given another ticket. but he wont be going beacuase of all the other things he would have to buy, plane ticket etc...

if F1 was closer to me i would go even if ticket prices are $150+

Las Vegas road course would be awesome and i would not see how the hotels there could not pay for it to happen. they have more than Indy or any other race venue in the US. seem like a win/win for Vegas Casinos.

i think it would be a better spot for open wheel racing to grow in the US considering "most" people in the east coast are in love with NASCAR, the percentage of people that watch nascar every weekend is much smaller on the west coast, mostly because we are into other types of racing, not just nascar.

 

Personally, I would not attend an F1 race in Las Vegas. I find that to be the wrong image for the sport. Having lived in there, I think Andreas is correct about Chicago.

First point, I do not think a viable permanent F1 road course exists in the USA today. I think it will have to be newly built, or a drastic rebuild of some exsiting track.

Second point, consider the economics for putting on an F1 event. Unless you are Bill Gates, consider you need to make a profit to keep this event going year after year. This is a business venture. Repeat that mantra.

With that in mind, where geographically would you attract the greatest number of spectators both domestic and foreign? This includes not only singles, but families. Keep in mind, that for now the domestic spectators would likely be the minority, so you will want to be able to attract Europeans and Latins. F1 is not the big ticket sport in the USA as it is in other parts of the world, and remember you are doing this for a profit, not just to satisfy your American buddies.

Criteria 1, where do you already have an international airport with direct flights from Europe and South America?

Criteria 2, where do you already have a large amount of hotel rooms within one hour of the course via a public transportation system? The transport system does not necessarily have to be in existence today, but the local municipality will have to be willing to cooperate with this. This includes roadways, buses, some form of rail/tram system.

Criteria 3, where do you have the land available, at reasonable prices to build a track with sufficient parking, roadways that allow for reasonable ingress/egress to the track, and reasonably priced multi-lingual labor both during construction and after the facility is completed?

I did this study years ago for a investor, and I draw the same conslusion today as I did 15 years ago.

Answer:
1) No existing course meets the above criteria. A new course will have to built costing in excess of $75 million. I love Mid-Ohio and Road America, but they are basically in the middle of no-where, and they do not meet FIA F1 standards.

2) Only two cities in the USA meet criteria 1-3 above. Orlando, and Miami.

Orlando is #1 as it has reasonably priced direct flights from all over the USA (even for those of you in California) on virtually every major airline (can't forget those frequent flier points), and direct flights or easy connections from the rest of the world, convenient time zone for Europe and South America, there is a secondary airport nearby that specializes in international charter flights, an abundance of excellent hotel rooms, plenty of labor and reasonable construction costs, a highway system that makes you wonder which state politicians are being bribed, the attraction of the theme parks for the rest of the family, a positive international image, and great weather for the final race of the year.

When asked 10 years ago, most of the F1 drivers agreed that Orlando would be a great choice. Some of you may remember that about 10-12 years ago, there was an ongoing rumor that Tony George, A.J. Foyt, and Michael Eisner wanted to build a permanenet F1 road course on the Disney property in Orlando. The rumor I heard was that Jackie Stewart convinced Foyt he should have done F1, but as you know AJ is rather hefty, too big for F1 in the 80's and early 90's. He makes even Tony Stewart look like the model spokesman for LA Fitness. They did build an oval for the IRL, but the F1 venue changed to Indianpolis. The oval exists today and is used by the Richard Petty Experience.

The only problem with Miami, is the lack of land for a new road course. Could be done, but would add 20% to the cost of the facility. Otherwise, it meets all the criteria, and even has a better rail/tram system than Orlando.

Anyway, when any of you win the Powerball, I would be happy to share my study with you for free tickets for life! That's a deal because I am old.

 

Chicago will host the Olympics before it hosts a F1 race and even that is a very long shot. Just no racing culture.

I could see a GP at Orlando. Heck, if they're able to build a new track in Cancun, why not in Orlando? And I would love it for all the reasons you give.

 

Only two events sum up a "worldly" motor racing venue in North America- Monteal and Long Beach. Even with the current races, the LBGP far surpasses Indy. Then Montreal- the city is perfect for a GP.
Until Indy can summon up other attractions the world couldnt give a crap, the track is poor and facilities are aadequate at best for the NASCRAP fan.

I am still going, had my 10 tix since the start.Wish they could/would add some more action events, parading over the hill 500 drivers won't do it.

Brian

 

I'd love it to be in Orlando, that's where I live right now If I had the money to buid a track, though, I wouldn't build it here. Even though it has all the hotels, airports, etc, I'd rather build next to the Gulf or Atlantic. Might as well if you're in Florida. Maybe near Naples where you can be right next to the Everglades and Gulf, but no airport like Orlando Int'l and definitely not as many hotels. I guess the fun in living in Orlando for 15+ years doesn't seem there anymore, but that's just me.

Edit: Disney would probably build it, too. They have like 40+ sq miles of land, pretty hard to find anything even close to that in Orlando. There's ~4 sq miles for sale in Ft. Pierce and that's for $58mm. I don't even want to imagine how much that would be in Orlando. I just don't see how anyone would breakeven on this.

 

While I agree that Montreal is by far the better venue and that the Indy F1 track is crap I disagree on the facilities. Having been to GPs around the world I'd say the track facilities at Indy beat pretty much anything I have ever seen anywhere and the city itself has come a long way. There are now plenty of hotels and nice restaurants.

 

You answered it for yourself, Naples does not have the infrastructure necessary for this large of an event. This is for profit, worst case to break even, so Orlando beast out everyone. I originally hoped the study I did would allow the track to be built on the shore of Lake Okeechobee, I envisioned a Monaco appearance, but that location did not meet the majority of the business criteria. Then I thought, how about city with a neat name like Clermont, but that was too far north of Orlando. My first choice location 12 years ago was where Celebrations in now located. We considered the rebuild of Sebring, Las Vegas and Long Beach (too far away from Europe and South America, both failed already due to F1 expense) rebuild of Mid-Ohio, rebuild of Road Atlanta, a purpose built "street course" in on the bay in downtown Miami, etc, but in the points system, Orlando kept coming up number 1.

 

You are absolutely right, Indy is like a Four Season's compared to places like Monza, which is more like a Motel 6. Toilet's at Long Beach are hard to find.

The facilities in the grandstands at Indy are the best of any major USA course.

 

Aha!!

There should be a handy surplus government property coming on the market any day now --
- one with lots of open areas
- one with lots of paving already in place
- one that's fairly convenient to Orlando:

Cape Kennedy.

(What space program?)

... And we could even call it "The Space Race".


Actually, the more I think about it, the more I like the notion of an F1 road course on KSC's property: it gets NASA some publicity, the room is there, and it only interferes with regular operations one week of the year.

Picture pit lane with the Vehicle Assembly Building in the background.

And CBS would go wild comparing the speeds of an F1 car to the NASA "transporter".

 

Oh boy, are you hitting a nerve with me: Manned space flight is my other passion.

Anyway, I'm glad to say that KSC continues to be used for space flights, increasingly so in 2010 when we'll finally retire Shuttle and get on with things going beyond Earth orbit. Sorry, no room for racing.

 

It would be pretty cool to have it there, though. Admit it It's a beautiful area. I'll probably go there in July and take some pics of the shuttle launch. Last one I went to was about 3 years ago, a 5 AM launch. One of the most amazing things I've seen in my life.

 

Yes it would be cool. Post some pics in OT please.

I agree, it is an awesome sight and sound and feel. I have seen three launches and one landing so far. Good luck!

 

The cynic in me fully expects all current plans for space exploration to be flushed by the next administration. Politicos have no vision beyond the next election.

But even with NASA operations in place, there's still plenty of open space around there.
(Along with the added thrill of 'gators in the run-off areas. )

The last tour I took of KSC, I think the bus driver was trying out for Daytona.

The only shortcoming of a track in Florida would be zero elevation changes. You can't even dig a elevation ditch because of the water table. (Of course, a sink hole might make things interesting. )

But then, I haven't been to KSC for a few years. If the military has moved in to supplement the declining ops at Edwards and White Sands, there might be a security issue with large international crowds.

But if it is still a NASA site, one week a year when you have to restrict launches would be fair trade-off for reminding people annually that space is still waiting for us.

On the other hand, the other contrast the networks might note wouldn't look as good:
F1 teams run the latest titanium and carbon fiber materials.
NASA is still flying an aluminum shuttle.

 

Plenty of carbon fibre material on the shuttle. Just think about the leading edges of the wings. But I get your point. The really funny part of Shuttle are the onboard computers. And the best of it all is the left over machine from the sixties Apollo era that monitors the data stream before launch. The size of a washing machine with a 64kb memory sitting in the firing room.

Anyway back to the Florida site for a GP: I did think about elevation changes being an obstacle, but then again look at the land masses Disney moved for its Animal Kingdom theme park. So it is all just a matter of $$$.