How many titles would Senna have won?

Oh. Is that how it worked?
'Sounds like more of your runoff on the back side of the banking at Zandvoort talk.
Then why are there still gentlemen drivers (winners) that still drive, along with live, with some class? (Speaking of which, you didn't address the off-track bs.....fuel cells did that to them too? )
I drove with many others that drove that way not because it was "safe", we did so because it was right. Unlike the famous NASCAR addage, "rubbin' ain't racin' ".

 

After careful analysis of all the available data, my team has developed a simple formula to determine how many titles Ayrton would have won, had he completed his career:

LH + 1

 

+1000
One can only be admiring Senna as a driver but Suzuka 1990 will remain an indelible fault in his career.
This wild revenge is rather curious for a devout Catholic, isn’t it?
I prefer not to talk about Jerez 1997..
I am not objective about Ferrari as you all already know..

 

Senna was a butcher who would do anything to win. There can be no doubt of his speed and skill but his ruthlessness will never put him high on my list. I've been following F1 and sports car racing since 1956. Guys like Clark, Fangio, Stewart never needed to block or run somebody off the road. Senna started it, Schumy perfected it and the game has never been the same. Just one old racers opinion.

 

You are playing with fire as you are dwelving into P & R, my friend...not wanting to enter into P & R, but...it's a quote, not an opinion, that I leave to your own thinking.

As a Frenchman, I hope you must remember how the young Armand-Jean Duplessis became bischop in 1607?
As quoted by Tallemand des Réaux, Armand-Jean Duplessis went to see the Pope, knowing full well that to be accepted as a bischop, he had to cheat on his age, as he was only 22 against the 26 required at the time to become a bischop. The pope (Paul V) knew it, and Armand-Jean Duplessis himself knew that the pope knew he knew...
According to Tallemand des Réaux, the Pope asked the young man "are you of the required age?" and the young man answered "yes"; both knew it was a lie...
The Pope duly made him a bishop, saying: "Questo Giovane sarà un gran furbo".

Years later, the young man was the first statesman of France, under the name Cardinal de Richelieu. The saying goes that he used to say: "give me six lines written by the most honest man of this kingdom, and I guarantee you that I will find enough into these to have him hanged"
(actually, the quote, often attribued to him, came more probably from Laubardémont, or perhaps Laffémas)

Rgds

 

Thank you,
I didn’t know the precise story.
I perfectly get the analogy with our dear Ayrton

 

In any activity, when you reduce the level of risk, you inevitably invite people to go further than was achievable before.

Motor racing becoming safer is an open invitation for more aggression.

When the ruling body looks away, it tacitly endorses the practice.

Just look at the 2 last laps of the 2022 Daytona 24 hours, and the fight between the 2 leading Porsche GT-Pro as an example.

They constantly made contact, everybody applauded, and I guess none of the drivers will get sanctioned,

That tells you how much motor racing has changed. Maybe you would have to do the same if you were still racing?

 

Man...that battle was crazy !

 

Simply put, no I would not. It was going on already, and there were those of us that realized it wouldn't stop for the "show".

The Porsches today are no safer than the one I drove. And a pass can still be made without banging if it should be so, and one is capable.
I repeat, the real competition is not "rubbing is racing". That's for the uninitiated that thinks it's so. 'Bad philosophy.....'just immature fantasy
wanting for "excitement" because they can't appreciate skill and excellence of the real sport of auto racing.....

 

A pass can be made cleanly if the other guy doesn't defend aggressively. You need a certain degree of "cooperation" to overtake.

If you don't obtain that, you have a choice: or you stay behind, or you have to physically force your way.

Speed is not enough, if you don't show enough aggression, you won't get result, or you won't keep your job. (Case of Bottas, I guess)

It's not only F1, it's the same in World GT Challenge, DTM, NASCAR, WTC, etc ... it's tolerated by the authorities, and encouraged by the teams.

 

When did you race william? I so appreciate your edumacation.
Tell me again how that runoff behind the banking would work.

 

You do need a certain degree of cooperation, unless you are max, u just torpedo the guys


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I tried a couple of races in FRenault early 70s, and didn't like single-seater.

After that I did rallies and hillclimbs which I prefered, for about 15 years.


BTW, a banking is only a large bend taken at high speed. Many of them don't have a wall.

 

You forgot to mention that a banked bend is much more than just a "fast bend". This is why I question your logic in general.
Since the nearly two years (the "new" Zandvoort thread) you still haven't figured it out?
A diagram (piss poor as it is, sorry) of how "your" runoff at the top of a banked "bend", corner, whatever you wish to call it, would be worthless if a car was going.....to fast/something broke/made contact with another.....and (literally) "flew" off the outside.....

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U have a drawing career ahead of u


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The draconian FIA punishment for '"causing a collision" in Jerez '97 was remarkable

The FIA were determined to slow down both Senna and Schumacher. We can understand why

 

Just what is the angle of most bankings? Certainly not as exagerated as your drawing.
You could even imagine an inclined run-off area with gravel on many of them.

FYI, Bristol, Charlotte; Texas, Darlington or Dover 24°; Homestead or Las Vegas 20°; Michigan 18°, Tallageda 16.5°; Nashville or Richmond 14°; Martinsville 12°; Phoenix 11°; Indianapolis 9°. Certainly not as extreme as your sketch !

BTW, Zandvoort is 18°. Only Daytona with 31° and Atlanta at 28° are extreme.

 

William dropping some banking knowledge!


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It's all on the internet!

 

But that IS the mentality of NASCRAP fans.........

 

CART drivers were on the edge of passing out due to the G-forces being sustained at Texas--which lead to the cancellation of the race--which lead to the collapse of CART.

This reinforces the notion of: "The show must go on".

 

You're off into that "other" world again. You're clueless. Are you sure you can drive at all, hill climbs or whatever?

Another try.....last time......
I admitted my drawing sucks. I never could. And, I also sucked at "Etch-a-Sketch" (mouse for drawing in this case).
The combination? (With a NYC accent.....) "Forgetaboutit....."
I wasn't meaning to exaggerate, but even so.....'not important. You were supposed to see beyond that.....I should have known better. that.....
The degree of banking is irrelevant regarding going off to a runoff. 'Ever heard the axiom "A body in motion tends to stay in motion" (also in the same direction.....up in this case.....'til gravity re-directs it back to earth)? Ever see cars fly (The 'Ring, Barcelona, maybe) when going over a rise, or just a drop-off of tarmac? The same happens when leaving a banked turn on the outside.

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This is why cars have wheels and tires in contact with the earth, to propel and steer, instead of having anti-gravity devices ('no rolling resistance).....
(Ooopps 'Almost forgot, you might not get that I was being sarcastic.....I think we don't have anti-gravity devices yet, but certainly didn't.....).

No más. If all the above doesn't work, you are Definitely not into physics (or maybe other laws thereof apply on "your" planet... ), and I surrender.

 

I'm well aware of that, smart arse !!! ...........

 

Oh.

Is that what it is.......?

 

No sheet. I thought that's what I implied .....