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How much do those Datsun based 250GTOs for for out the door?

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Auraraptor, Apr 1, 2004.

  1. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
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    Just wondering. Are they really an easy daily driver? How good is the paint on them? With snow tires can they take a NE winter? How much are they out the door, turn key example?
     
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  3. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    there is a nice one in the autotrader for 18k , looks nice and ready to drive. Chelle posted a bunch of info on these awhile back. i have to go to work and cant do a search now.
     
  4. Dave328

    Dave328 Formula 3

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    $29.95 USD?
     
  5. Ken

    Ken F1 World Champ

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  6. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Well those 21 miles are probably in reference to the new engine.

    We got a couple of Datsun GTOs in Chicagoland and I'd say they're daily drivers. The ladies who own them tinker with them however non stop, but that's more because they like doing that.
     
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  8. MarkG

    MarkG Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
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    I have owned a '72 240Z, '69 911 and my current 82 308. By far the best of the lot was the 240Z.

    A well made GTO knock off on a Z car, with proper modifications to engine and suspension, would be an excellent daily driver and have super performance to boot.

    Of the 3 sports cars I've owned, if I could keep only one, it would be the '72 Z hands down.
     
  9. rob

    rob F1 Rookie

    May 22, 2002
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    If you run a set of Blizzaks on them you should be all set. Price may be going up as I hear this is the last year they are making them but I wouldn't pay anything over 20k for one.
     
  10. F1Ace

    F1Ace F1 Rookie

    Mar 15, 2004
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    Wes
    As an owner of a Z-based GTO I can tell you:
    1-They are a great daily driver, in the sense that ingress and egress are very easy. They're z-based so they're unreal cheap to insure and maintain. Plus a blast to drive. The only sense they're not a good daily driver is in that they're soooooo obvious. People just love them, you'll never get vandilized it seems, but it's kinda like a girl who wears a wedding dress everywhere she goes. It's a bit obvious. Perhaps if mine didn't have the stripes down the middle it would be more subtle, but I love them too much.
    2-How good is the paint? Well that depends on who built it.
    3-Winter drive? No. The rear tires need to be proportionately large and would be a real handful to drive. The car is light and you wouldn't go anywhere. I mean anything's possible, but people will stare at the car very very closely the following summer, and if there's a flaw.....you'll hear about it....EVERY TIME! Plus the fibreglass can spidercrack very easily.
    4-Keep your eye on the trader and some kit car classified sites, they come up every so often for $15-25g. The one mentioned on e-Bay is NOT z based!

    Good luck!
    Wes
     
  11. Chelle

    Chelle Formula 3

    Dec 6, 2003
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    Personally I think they make great daily drivers, biggest thing to watch out for is rust on the frame rails and floor... anything else the parts are cheap and plentiful, but weak front framerails are a pain to replace.. Kim just replaced her floors and framerails and the only shop that was willing to do it locally did a great job but had the car 2 weeks and charged her around $1200 plus I think around $400 for the parts.. i drove mine the first winter we had it and it was fine,
    here's proof it's been in the snow lol
    http://members.core.com/~sysadmin/personal/GTOinsnow.jpg
    Certainly my roomie's eclipse does better in the snow.. but I never had any mishaps.. For a completed decent car figure $15,000 and up depending how nice. $15k for an otherwise stock chassis car with nissan 6 cyl.. 18k-20k with a mild chevy V8..or Jag V12 higher if it's something unusual like an LS1/6 speed or BMW/Mercedes V12.. Above 25k it better have something special about it - extended wheelbase and rear hatch replaced with a trunk and fixed window, flawless paint, and a special engine... a decent ferrari SOHC engine/trans alone is worth 15-20k... so if it's one of the few nissan based ones with a ferrari engine it gains value for the engine but unfortunately becomes less of a daily driver.

    See pics here look in that directory for some misc. pics of the red nissan based car (there are a lot of nice cars in that directory including our lambo, and many Chicago listers cars..
    http://members.core.com/~blonnde/sunday/me_and_gto.jpg
    http://members.core.com/~blonnde/sunday/
    here's the red and white cars
    http://members.core.com/~sysadmin/personal/garage.jpg

    A stock 240/260/280z is light and even with the stock engine pretty nimble, removing all the bumpers and sheetmetal and replacing with the glass stuff makes it a minimum of 200lbs lighter. As Andreas said we tinker with ours.. but, well it's an addiction : ) there are worse addictions ..

    Wes, I agree completely on 1,2, and 4... your third point I mentioned above

    A kit will run in the area of $5000 + donor car, and whatever options you might want.. I don't think any of these guys are offering turnkey cars - best bet is to find a well done one someone else has assembled..

    There are 5 companies currently offering 250GTO inspired designs. the best known is probably Tom McBurnie, he's the one who made the Daytona Spyder from Miami Vice .. he was shut down by FNA's team of lawyers for the daytona but continues to offer the GTO..
    Puckett makes the most accurate body for the nissan based cars. .. he doesn't really push that part of his business but he does still offer the car..
    John Washington in Arizona sells the more common "Vela Rossa" the roadster based on the same molds that my nissan based car was built on.

    the red and white GTO replica's both have bodies by a company that has long since gone out of business.. Alpha1... Joe Alphabet sold his molds years ago, I posted a bunch on this in this thread
    http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4189

    Here's a useful link that discusses and links to all the options
    This page is run by the guy who makes the Vella Rosa.. and he's a genuine car nut. http://www.reactionresearch.com/gtorr/
    Then this guy has a site
    http://www.zcarkits.com/
    - but doesn't do it for a living. My experience has been he seldom ever replies to e-mails or voicemails in a timely manner.
    McBurnie (the one who ended up with the Alpha1 molds) is here:
    http://www.thunderranch.com/
    He and the John (from reaction research) are probably the best for communication with customers.
    There is also a new guy on the scene I personally think many of his prices are out of line but he does offer some components that are really hard to get otherwise:
    http://www.scorpionzcars.com/
    He and Puckett are the only ones that get rid of the hatchback and create a trunk.
    If you want the most accurate body (of the zcar based options) I can put you in touch with Puckett.. but it will take months to get the parts (he makes them to order) and he doesn't have a web presence.. but hey - that makes the experience all the more authentic.. like buying from GTCP.. : ) nice guys but forget about computerized inventory or anything..
    Chelle
     
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  13. F1Ace

    F1Ace F1 Rookie

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    Chelle, thanks for the post.
    Some great web sites. I knew most of them, but I lost track of McBernie, thanks for his site.

    Wes
     
  14. venusone

    venusone F1 Rookie

    Mar 20, 2004
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    I chose to restore my Datsun 240Z & modify to resemble a 250GTO. W/ a Chevy 350 under the hood, I had a mission & did very well. The car looks like the best of 2 worlds & remains somewhat true to form.
    You remember the Scarab?
     
  15. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
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    Sep 25, 2002
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    Guys, post more pics of your cars!
     
  16. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Kim, Chelle, I got tons of pics from your cars. Unless you have some better ones I can post them.
     
  17. urraco

    urraco Formula Junior

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    #14 urraco, Apr 5, 2004
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    I know it's a Datsun but is this yours? Chelle ...BTW have you realized you have a car named after me? Urraco has always been my most beloved car (only Miura comes first) tell me everything about yours. I want to know it's full story etc. Also the GTO is another car in my dreams ( my favorite vintage) please reply and tell me about your cars you are so lucky to own them.
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  18. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I can dig it. But I think that I'd prefer to do a Cal Spider rep, instead of a GTO. The GTO is just too obvious. Does anybody make a Cal Spider body?
     
  19. Chelle

    Chelle Formula 3

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    #16 Chelle, Apr 5, 2004
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    Wes, you're welcome : ) Tom is a nice guy - always busy though...

    Karen - I remember the Scarab.. I think I have one of their bellhousings here someplace... they were great cars.. personally with the smallblock z's I prefer the JTR setup with the engine set back further and lower... but in the 80's when I had one Scarab was the only game in town..

    Omar, I can do that.. .but Andreas has higher res better pics of them.. my digital camera is a cheapy

    Andreas... please feel free to post them : )

    Martin.. nope - that one is very nice and owned by a guy up in Michigan.. Dick Goodman... he's got a nice SBC engine in his... thanx though.. are you in teh Chicago area? I'll let you drive any of them - they're toys.. and should be shared with other car people.. I'll have to type that out at teh office tomorow.. too far past my bedtime right now - but here's a pic of the engine in Dick's car and a couple of the bay we keep the GTO replica's in...

    Dale- there's two companies that do Cal spyder "reproductions".. but neither offers them as a kit as far as I know..

    Chelle
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  20. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    You have got to be joking!. Anybody that puts a genuine Ferrari engine into one of these should be ex-communicated. That is just horrible!!!

    The Datsun 240-280z is a great car and these replicas look okay, but stealing a Ferrari engine for a replica that is so far away from a real GTO is rediculous.

    In all honesty as much as I hate people cutting up 250 GTE's and other Ferraris to make a GTO replica, I have to say that I prefer that to powering a Datsun with a Ferrari engine!!!

    Just cannot believe anybody would actually do that ...

    Pete
    ps: And do not reply with the engine had already lost its chassis, etc. because there are many GENUINE Ferraris out their that would be alive and well with that very engine ... like the 250 GT 2+2 on the replica post in the Vintage section.
     
  21. Chelle

    Chelle Formula 3

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    I'm not joking... I've seen a couple nissan based replica's with ferrari engines, also a cobra replica with a 4 cam V12, there's a street rod with a V12 from a 550.. I've seen a couple boats with twin inboard ferrari 12's..

    there are plenty of engines out there... more engines than bodies... I just passed on an allegedly perfectly fine engine and trans from a 400i... I agree we shouldn't kill a perfectly fine 2+2... but if someone else killed it and I want the engine I'll buy it.. some would insist the engine is the heart and soul of a ferrari... if you want to be annoyed at someone make it the person pulling this perfectly good V12 to put a small block chevy..
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3714852303&category=12&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AIT&rd=1

    The 2+2 you mentioned I'll admit it's a shame to see something like that parted out - It would have been nice if (I think it was Greg Jones that used that one as a parts car, but I could be wrong) they had gone to Tom and bought an engine rather than part out a perfectly good car.. hell when we got the Lambo the seller had listed it as a parts car simply because he took it all apart and didn't think anyone would think it was worth putting back together ... I'm not going to buy some nice 2+2... but a totalled car sure.. I've parted out totalled cars.. sometimes they really aren't worth the expense to repair/restore.. that's why insurance companies total them. someday if I get around to building my 250GTO on a 575 chassis I'll buy a flood car or wreck and I won;t feel the least bit bad about using the parts .. I won't feel obligated to find an engineless 575 to restore..

    Honestly in the long run what difference does it make? I love vintage cars and have restored. several.. always because I loved the cars... not to make money on the deal.. but really, in 50 years most of us will be dead and gone - in 75 almost all of these cars will be long gone.. it's sad but true - replica, original.. all of them - if they aren't regulated to the crushers, old age and inavailability of fuel and parts likely will take them... think about it - with all the parts that will break down, the flexible plastic pieces, foam, F1 systems, engine electronics... even if stored in perfect conditions - what it the likelihood more than a handful will be left... in 2050 Tom Schaunessey's heirs will be parting out what's left of a few enzo's to keep the ten or so that are left going.. if someone has an engine and I feel like buying it I will.. if I want to put it in a replica, a street rod, an airplane or a boat, it's only money and it's just parts.. when all the bodies turn to dust at least the soul of the car will go on in something else..

    Chelle
     
  22. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    Don't care about modern cars like the 575s you talk about they are still being built, but ALL old Ferraris should be preserved where possible.

    As for the Cobra with the 400 engine that apparently used a crate engine ... so it never had a car.

    Personally I would much rather own a boring old 250 GT 2+2 with a mis-numbered Ferrari engine than any Ferrari (old Columbo) powered replica, I would feel guilty and would expect to be treated as such!

    Again very sad to see people are that confused about what they are building. A Datsun based 250GTO is about as close to a GTO, with or without a Ferrari engine, as my Toyota People Mover is to a 250 LM. Atleast go to the effort of making an exact chassis and body from scratch ... then you have something worth putting a Ferrari engine into.

    Nothing against good quality replicas, but when they destroy old Ferraris (again could not care less for new models) I get upset. Leave the real engines for people restoring REAL Ferraris PLEASE. NOT that many going around of the older ones.

    Pete
    ps: I know that you own a Datsun based Ferrari GTO replica, and this post is not a personal attact at all. Why? because you have not wrecked an OLD Ferrari to make your car I believe. If you have then you have lost my respect, for what that is worth.
     
  23. Chelle

    Chelle Formula 3

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    Pete,
    So, if I built thie car in the mid 60's when I hadn't yet learned to walk it would be okay just because I parted out something when I could have still bought teh parts from the factory to repair? you said preserve where possible.. sometimes it's not feasible.. yes there's the example someone said of the 275 restored when all they had to start with was the crossmember... I don't cal that restoring one... I call it building your own 275 around a single suspension component...

    The cobra replica with a 4 cam I don't know if it was a 400 engine... I remember the car - but not that detail....

    The 400 engine I was referring to was a perfectly good 400i engine being pulled and sold on ebay to put a chevy engine in the car..

    Why resort to a logical fallacy to make a point.. fine - you're against the idea of an original engine getting put in anthing that didn't have a prancing horse from the day it spawned from the factory.. I get it.. opinions differ... but to suggest that the nissan based gtos have no more in common that a sporty minivan (sorry but that's all an SUV is to me.... a minivan made masculine enough for suburban Dad's to convince themselves they actually drive a truck) has with a ferrari race car is simply resorting to a logical fallacy.

    Again - there are PLENTY of old engines to go around.. if you're willing to spend the money... Tom always has a few.. I don't see anyone picketing his place just because he parts out a TON of old restorable cars..

    Actually I have both... the nissan based and an old 250 chassis rebodied into a recreation of a GTO... they are both fun to drive for different reasons. I didn't commission either car.. but I still enjoy them... the 250 chassis car used parts from a LOT of doners.. 365 engine, 250 chassis, handmade body.. etc.. many pieces of several cars that were parted out came together to put a new one on the road...someone else wrecked the parts cars.. I simply keep some of their memory alive by using the pieces left behind. For me that's a lot nicer thought than the perfect 40 year old car locked away in a garage with 1000 miles on it, never to be seen or enjoyed.. slowly rotting away.... if the cars have souls I'd think they are happier being driven..
    Chelle
    an no worries.. I don't take any of this as attacks... it's healthy debate : )
     
  24. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Can you give me a lead on the names of these companies? I really do love the looks of a California Spyder, just don't have a few extra million lying around.

    Thx, Dale
     
  25. bert308

    bert308 Formula 3
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    These were modern Ferraris when the pictures were taken. Building replicas is of all times. The 166 cabrio at the wrecking yard was turned into a spider corsa, the SWB was advertised for sale as a GTO...
     
  26. venusone

    venusone F1 Rookie

    Mar 20, 2004
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    Check out "Kit Car" Magazine. There are about 2-3 companies that do the Datsun - GTO kits well.

    Chelle: Those are your reps? Nice stable. What exactly is under those? Do you still have them?
     
  27. venusone

    venusone F1 Rookie

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    BTW, how do I post a photo?
     
  28. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    When you reply, scroll down and click the "Manage Attachements" button. This creates a pop up. From there click on Browse to go to your computer and find the file you want to upload. Be careful though. You can't upload large pictures.

    Best, DrTax
     

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