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How much does it cost to maintain your 599 GTB?

Discussion in '612/599' started by Rudy599, Jun 28, 2019.

  1. Da Butcher

    Da Butcher Karting

    Jan 9, 2018
    104
    Full Name:
    Jose Marie Alandy
    Gents FYI,

    One huge reason why these GM-sourced magnetorheological shocks leak is due to lack of use!

    It's quite a long, drawn out explanation given the morphology of rubber elastomer seals. Basically, all types of rubber seals naturally outgas (or release its gaseous components into the atmosphere) and are prone to getting an unwanted permanent set after time, especially if not "wetted" by fluid during use. The wetting provides some lubrication and may also induce a bit of swelling to ensure full contact on the sliding surfaces. As-machined surface finish of the sliding surfaces can also be a factor for long term sealing reliability.

    Remember the rainbow colors found on the inner windshield surfaces after exposure to hot sun or UV light, those are the gaseous elements that outgas from the leather or vinyl dashboards, especially after application of some type of treatment like Armorall (really bad!) and causes the dashboard materials to dry out and subsequently crack prematurely.

    Ultimately, any grease lubricant that's been applied (if any) during component shock assembly also dissipates given time, temperature and ambient conditions. Then there's also the dreaded external contaminants, eg, fine dust, chemicals, etc., that the rubber seals could be exposed to while driving on the road; those may either damage and/or dry out the rubber.

    More so, I believe GM's former Delphi division invented and designed these type of magnetorheological shocks circa late 80's or early 90's and believe it or not, rubber elastomer science was not the same as 10 years later when newer, more robust, resistant to wear and less contaminant-sensitive types of rubber and seal designs were invented. Around the early 90's, I had worked with a consultant rubber scientist to analyze certain rubber compounds that were resistant to low-earth-orbit space conditions for use in the Japanese module Kibo and NASA for the Space Station. Even he called rubber science a "black art" at that time!
     
  2. F3RN4ND0

    F3RN4ND0 Karting

    Nov 16, 2015
    121
    Madrid, Spain
    Full Name:
    F3RN
    Thanks. Very helpful, guys.
    I agree with José. I experienced rear leaks after a long summer hibernation in Dubai, while it never happened when she was my DD.
    I replaced the rear shocks for a cheap pair of used ones that I was offered.
    Nowadays in Europe. If problems re-emerge , I will follow Stijn path.
     
  3. Zaza

    Zaza Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 27, 2017
    196
    Brittany & Indonesia
    Full Name:
    Xavier
    Your post is entitled :
    How much does it cost to maintain your 599 GTB?
    I just replied, sorry not to match your calculation
     
  4. Kiwi599

    Kiwi599 Rookie

    Mar 6, 2019
    27
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Full Name:
    Ian
    I feel your pain. Mines done 51,000km and I’ve just dropped $35,000NZ on it. New clutch, flywheel, 4 new shocks, new front and rear brake pads, full service, new tpms sensors, new tyres, power steering leak and $325 for wiper blades. My hand brake still doesn’t work very well and I have had to order a new R/H tail light for it to get rid of a lamp warning light.

    But it’s still the best super car I’ve ever owned and turns heads like no other. But in saying that I am hoping the maintenance costs slow down a bit.
     
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  5. George Vosburgh

    George Vosburgh F1 Rookie

    May 26, 2011
    2,778
    Pittsburgh, PA
    No truer words were ever spoken about any Ferrari. To keep the car truly perfect you will experience some financial pain. However owning a perfectly functioning Ferrari is something very few people will ever know.
     
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  6. ridege55

    ridege55 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 9, 2017
    748
    Manhattan Beach, CA
    Full Name:
    John
    I fear I am going to jinx myself. I will not mention anything about my 599...
     
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  7. MrF355

    MrF355 Formula Junior

    Mar 4, 2008
    327
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Frosty
    My experience is that any Ferrari must be driven on a regular basis and I do not mean to cars and coffee and back home. Take her out for a long drive and let those horses gallop freely they will love you and won’t be so temperamental. You will also fully appreciate the engineering of these magnificent cars.
     
  8. Rudy599

    Rudy599 Rookie

    May 4, 2018
    25
    Full Name:
    Roger Kastoun
    When they gallop freely, those horses usually take me straight to the garage... :)
     
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  9. MrF355

    MrF355 Formula Junior

    Mar 4, 2008
    327
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Frosty
    Mine is in for the annual service and only thing apart from the regular service is new brake shoes for the handbrake. Everything else is fine.
     
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  10. Rudy599

    Rudy599 Rookie

    May 4, 2018
    25
    Full Name:
    Roger Kastoun
    Awesome! This is good news! Some F355 services can be insanely expensive i hear.. when the engine goes out for the belts ("the big one")

    That agonizing moment when the dealer calls you after you dropped the Ferrari... :)
     
  11. CPBTX

    CPBTX Rookie

    Mar 8, 2019
    2
    Full Name:
    CPB
    I understand being upset over larger than expected repair costs, but since you’ve fixed so many issues, why not keep it and drive it a while? Get some enjoyment out of it.
     
    Modena_2003 likes this.
  12. MrF355

    MrF355 Formula Junior

    Mar 4, 2008
    327
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Frosty
    I know very well how much a 355 costs as the 355 was my first. It was expensive the first 2 years but once it was sorted, valve guides done, new manifolds, new variators, new water pump, new alternator, belts changed and timing set correctly it ran perfectly. Sold it some 7 years ago and the person who purchased her still owns her and tells me apart from the annual service and a belt change last 18 months she has run perfectly.

    What I have found with F car ownership and this is my experience and of friends with their F cars proper maintenance by someone who knows what they are doing is essential PLUS they need to be driven I cannot stress this enough. My tech for my 599 tells me that the problem cars are the garage queens. I have close to 40,000 km and she runs perfectly. Last year my car was parked next a 2007 model that had some 5,000 km needed new F1 pump and cam seals were leaking. Why, it has not been driven. Once sorted these cars I maintain are reliable and run without problems. So when buying second hand you need to fix what the previous owner neglected and what may/will arise if the car was not driven on a regular basis. Sticky interior bits well thats what we put up with, fix those as they arise. Clutch life depends on how you drive. Taz has provided the best advice (all his advice is first rate and should be followed) drive like you would a manual and the F1 clutch will last for many many miles.

    All F cars are phenomenal they just need to be maintained by someone who knows what they are doing AND driven. If your decision at the time of purchase is to make money or minimise depreciation by not driving, sorry but to me you are not a true Ferrari owner. Enjoy the car, if you sell and make money that is a plus of ownership, if you sell and get close to what you paid that is a plus of ownership. If you enjoy the car from day one not worrying about what you will get if you sell at some future point in time that is the ownership experience of driving one of the best engineered cars on the road built by passionate engineers and workers. These cars have a soul that no other manufacturer is able to instill in their vehicles.

    I have a Pista next to the 599. It has production flaws, paint is not what it should be, a camry is painted better, there are other little bits. Do I care, nope, once behind the wheel the Pista tells you what she was built to do, that acceleration, braking , steering response and handling all the paint flaws and fit and finish in places are all forgotten. Do I care about mileage, not one little bit.

    PS I am very biased if it has not been noticed.
     
  13. Patrnflyr

    Patrnflyr Karting

    Jan 23, 2012
    238
    Lubbock, TX
    I’m sorry, but dealing with stickies finally on my car. Never had much in the dry West Texas climate but recently moved the car down to the DFW area and now have about 8-10 buttons needing to be serviced. I get that driving a Ferrari 599 is one of life’s greatest experiences but I Don’t understand why we “have to put up with it”. Heck, a forty year old Toyota doesn’t have stickies, why in the world do we have to put up with it?!? Why can’t Ferrari fix this? Lambo too. Is there some kind of kick back scheme going on between the switch makers and Ferrari?
     
  14. Motorama

    Motorama Karting

    Jul 10, 2018
    149
    Full Name:
    Stijn Van Loffelt
    We all agree to that but there must ben more to it cuz this aint Camrychat.com
     
  15. Motorama

    Motorama Karting

    Jul 10, 2018
    149
    Full Name:
    Stijn Van Loffelt
    Aprilia motorcycles have similar italian issues. I talked about it to a dealer. He said this. We don't sell a whole lot of them if they were any better we d be bankrupt
     
  16. F355 Fan 82

    F355 Fan 82 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 22, 2006
    5,965
    Roger, same experience with my 575, dream car of mine, bought it and spent $15,000 in the first year....at an indy shop....from what I learned, most previous owners do the least amount of maintaining as needed. Im a perfectionist, car has been issue free since. Is it worth it? Meh there are much cooler cars for the money no doubt, plenty with same performance and less headaches for sure, but to me my 575 is the most gorgeous car around and I always wanted one. I had an 812 superfast for almost a year and it just didn't push the right buttons for me, it was too docile, my 575 just makes my heart skip a beat every time I see it and drive it. Im sad to hear you had so many issues with your 599 bc I've been eyeing one for a while just haven't found the spec I want, but I definitely feel your car was like mine and its more the fault of the previous owner being more interested in saving money than the car.
     
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  17. Rudy599

    Rudy599 Rookie

    May 4, 2018
    25
    Full Name:
    Roger Kastoun
    For the record, I did not purchase the car to invest and the last thing i want is to have it sit in the garage... This is a kid dream, like so many other people on this forum...
    For as far back and my memory goes I have been passionate about cars. The first ever picture of me is sitting in a red plastic sports car toy on my parents' balcony in the late seventies. When I was 20 years old i made a promise to myself that I would do whatever it takes to afford my dream Ferrari (the 308 GTS of Magnum PI!!! Still my favorite!). It took me 21 years to realize my dream, so much that i teared up the day i exited the RTA (equivalent of DMV in Dubai) with the key in my hand. I just could not believe it... My own shining red Ferrari! What a glorious moment that was!!
    So this is definitely NOT an investment! :)

    Anyways, i will get the car back next Saturday and drive it on a regular basis, but in the back of my mind, there is always the constant thought that "something is either breaking right now, or about to break..." This will fade with time if the car proves to be reliable. Else I will sell it and get something more reasonable..
     
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  18. F355 Fan 82

    F355 Fan 82 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 22, 2006
    5,965
    Ha! you sound just like me, everytime i would get in my 575 I would think "what is going to go wrong today". I had to flatbed it to the shop 3 or 4 times in my first few months as owner, but its been trouble free since, like others said, you need to use it. I drove mine 3-4x a week. I think the issue with lots of ferraris is they arene't maintained correctly, lots of indy shops don't know what they're doing + owners try to cut corners to save money( in my case the cheap guy who owned it before me changed the clutch disc & not the clutch position sensor which costs nothing so it cost me $4,000 when it died bc you basically have to do a whole clutch job labor wise to replace this sensor that could have been replaced easily before) and I think the other issue is the machines sit forever bc most guys have multiple cars or don't want to put miles,etc. In the end any machine you don't use regularly will break. I think your 599 is prob a great machine, just needs to get sorted out, which it sounds like you did and now just needs regular usage.
     
    Modena_2003 likes this.
  19. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

    Feb 21, 2015
    5,798
    Maybe you should have just bought a 308? Nothing too much to go wrong ,no stickies!

    With the depreciation you will get on the 599, plus maybe more big bills i would dump it fast.
     
  20. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Lifetime Rossa

    Jul 19, 2008
    31,083
    Albuquerque, NM
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    599s are pretty much fully depreciated.
     
  21. Rudy599

    Rudy599 Rookie

    May 4, 2018
    25
    Full Name:
    Roger Kastoun
    The previous owners had 80+ cars in his garage. The 599 sat so much there that it had mice (or rats) that ate a few cables inside the car... So hopefully all will be sorted out and i won't have to worry for a while (at least 6 months of trouble free driving).

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  22. Rudy599

    Rudy599 Rookie

    May 4, 2018
    25
    Full Name:
    Roger Kastoun
    Would be great, but it's near impossible to find parts for a 308 where i live...
     
  23. Rudy599

    Rudy599 Rookie

    May 4, 2018
    25
    Full Name:
    Roger Kastoun
    Agreed - i doubt they will go any lower. Even if they do, for me a F is not an investment (well not this one at least).
     
  24. Da Butcher

    Da Butcher Karting

    Jan 9, 2018
    104
    Full Name:
    Jose Marie Alandy
    Roger,

    Just like you I had to wait a much longer time to get to own a Ferrari since I first read about and became fascinated with the 250GTO and 250LM back in the mid-60"s as a young teenager! I obtained an engineering degree and worked diligently towards owning a few early sports cars, eg, rare '79 TransAm T/A6.6 with 4-speed, '81 Porsche 931S, '02 SLK32-AMG, '07 SL55-AMG, '06 Cayenne Turbo S, while raising a family with my wife, putting 4 kids through private education, then endured the stupid financial collapse of ten years ago. No Ferrari yet.

    I got the chance of a lifetime via direct involvement as a components' supplier (and sometimes problem solver) to the Ferrari F1 team from 1997 on through the Schumacher winning years, Kimi's championship in '07, Alonso and Vettel years. I worked with some key engineering team leaders, eg, Aldo Costa, Gilles Simon, and Simon Resta, with access to their workshops to witness engine and chassis assembly (also at McLaren's Woking facility ten years ago). Still no Ferrari!

    Through all those amazing work experiences, I kept wondering "when oh when will I get my own Ferrari"?

    After I retired on the Ides of March 2016, I figured later that what the heck, time was awasting and I won't be taking my 401K savings after I kick the bucket. So I finally started searching for an early '07 599 and got a low mileage beauty in Dec 2017. How sweet that was until a few niggling problems appeared! Then in Oct last year while on an FCA-SW tour to San Francisco, I lost control at high speed on a remote newly paved two lane highway with a very slow 35 mph right-left turn then dropped elevation suddenly and corkscrewed down to a left-right turn (similar to Laguna Seca's Corkscrew feature but tighter and narrower). Well I found out one limitation of the 599 - it didn't like to fly! The resulting skid and counter turns for corrective action while perpendicular to the road after we landed led to the front end getting stuffed into loose dirt but didn't inflate the airbags.

    That car got totaled by insurance due to replacement parts' cost alone ($130K) but through deft negotiations, I received more than enough to find a one-owner '11 HGTE local car with higher mileage consigned at Ferrari BH. It took some convincing from my trustworthy friends at Ferrari South Bay to not worry about its relatively higher mileage of 18.5k miles. The Carfax report looked good and to confirm, they did the PPI for free twice (once at BH and another at SB) to ferret out any potential future issues. The owner was amenable to have the shop repair minor front bumper underside damage, fix 3 wheels' rim rashes, replace all TPMS sensors, install a new battery and replace parts at his cost, plus reduce the price significantly to compensate for the clutch at 51%.

    So far, this higher mileage HGTE is actually running smoother with no engine stumbling when cold, handles much better, less harsh riding than the lower mileage '07 GTB on similar Pirelli tires and seems more reliable. Maybe luck of the draw or just a good informed choice, who knows but so far, so good. How sweet it is! :)

    PS: If you've spent a lot of cash to fix your 599's many issues to get it running more reliably, why sell it now after all your sacrifices then have the next owner enjoy the car with zero troubles because of what you had spent? Enjoy it yourself; get satisfaction from what you've already spent then alter your state of mind. ;)
     
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