How much faster is an F12 TDF, compared to a 488 GTB in straight line speeds?

Not sure about a TDF but a 488 strolls away from an 812 on a track straight. It’s a combination of traction, torque and weight. The 812 gets to 200km/h supposedly quicker but the earlier increments favour the 488 which means that by the time the 812 is doing 200km/h the 488 is already further up the road, then it is time to brake. The 812 is at seriously high speed before it has caught the 488 - much higher than you can get on tracks other than Le Mans or maybe Spa. Not sure how much quicker the TDF is but I wouldn’t bet it’s a lot - 20 less hp and a bit less weight.

 

The official times at Fiorano given by Ferrari show that the F12 TDF is considerably faster than the 488 GTB and fractionally faster than the 812. This circuit is 2,9 Km long, has 12 turns and a maximum straight length around 700m. Lap times were, 1.21 sec. for the TDF, 1.21.05 for the 812 and 1.23 sec for the 488 GTB. However if we look at the Variano handling course times, 2,8 Km track length, 16 turns and a maximum straight length 500 m, the 488 GTB was faster than the 812 with a time 1.11.52 sec against 1.12.18 sec . These figures suggest that the 488 GTB is slight faster than the 812 in a circuit where there are more turns and shorter straights and in similar conditions, I doubt the TDF will be faster than the 488 and could even be slightly slower.

 

A correction to the previous post. The correct name of the Italian handling course is Vairano and not "Variano" …………..

 

Well, the 488 launches a bit better due to weight distribution and overall less weight, but the 812 is quicker above 120 kph. But they are really close: http://www.zeperfs.com/en/duel6632-5623.htm
Now, imagine the 812's V12 in the body shell of the 488...

 

But the question was, how does the TDF compare, not 812?

TDF is lighter than the 812.

I track the TDF regularly, but have only done passenger laps in the 488 to date. My impression is that the TDF pulls harder through each gear but that is highly subjective. I invited my friend who owns the 488 and several others, and who is a former race driver, to do 5 or 6 laps in the drivers seat of the TDF. When he came back in, he simply said, “that is the greatest Ferrari ever built”


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But it is very difficult to get evidence of the relative speed of the TDF. Fiorano times are marketing rather than anything else IMO - or do you believe every car achieves exact increments? Therefore the Vairano times are more representative. The 812 is heavier but also more powerful and much easier for mere mortals to drive. I suspect it is quite relevant to the pace a ‘normal’ supercar driver could extract from the TDF.

Your last comment, not performance, is exactly the reason someone should want to own the TDF. It is a masterpiece according to those who own one.

 

On a track the 488 is the clear winner. It's more nimble than the 812 or TDF. And yes, I have driven the three of them on a track.
We all know what to think of 'official' Ferrari track times.

 

Would love to see a head-to-head F12 tdF versus 812s track test. Same driver and same tires. Question is will the greater HP of the 812s overcome the weight difference and will the calmer rear steering tune of the same platform 812s overcome the more jittery nature of the F12 tdF in the hands of a mortal driver. The video with Chris Harris gave the impression that the F12 tdF was a too unpredictable package to extract the best performance. I think the tdF would likely have lower track times but could be very close. This would be due to mostly the overall tune, lighter weight and the freer spinning motor.

 

I’d like to see that too.

I did not interpret Harris’s video review that way. He felt it was unpredictable with all the nanny controls turned OFF. I suspect you would find the 812 to be equally a handful if you did that too.

But yes, a same-driver, same-track, same-day comparison would be fantastic to read/watch


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I thought the thread question was about straightline speed. If that is indeed the topic, the TDF is faster period. Track performance depends on the track itself. Some configurations will favour the 488 and some will favour the TDF. Having said that, who cares about a few tenths of a second? I recently saw a video comparing the McLaren Senna to the 720S...Up to 100 miles an hour, they are pretty much even...However given a same-money choice who wouldn’t pick the Senna over the 720? Based on my own first hand experience, there is no comparison between the TDF and the 488. The TDF feels much more special to drive and I would pick it over the 488 any day of the week. I would also bet that the Pista will feel more special than the TDF! Can’t wait...


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Pista more Speciale than a TDF....to me thats a long shot esp given the sound of the Pista.

 

Agreed. Given the 0-100kph times are the same (2.9 secs), but the 0-200kph time for the TDF is a full half second faster (7.1 sec vs 7.6 sec) than the Pista, there is clearly more top end power with the V12 TDF


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TDF 0-200 is 7.8 as far as I remember


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Actually, seems to be mixed reports in that stat... it may be I stand corrected (maybe not)

https://www.evo.co.uk/ferrari/f12tdf
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_F12
http://fastestlaps.com/models/ferrari-f12-tdf



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Official figure is 7.1 - unfortunately for the tdf there are virtually no tested figures: http://www.zeperfs.com/duel5623-5997.htm

 

Me too. I think you got most of the differences right, but you missed the difference in tires. That would be a big factor. I know a few people with both cars and they all say the TDF just feels more special, and "spiky" to drive. They love the 812 also, but its suited to being driven more often.

George I am a little surprised to read this because it seems the TDF is just such a special driving experience, and I do think as amazing as the Pista is, it will be hard to compete with that NA sound- which- as far as I can tell, is right up there with some race cars! I think the Pista is going to offer "epic" performance and should also be a real blast to drive on the road. I am expecting the car will be a little bit more "friendly" than the TDF (less willing to bite so quickly). I guess we all have our definition of "special" but for me, wow, I think they are both very special. I think they are the ultimate incarnation of their type: Front engine V12 and now mid engine V8. I'll tell you guys... the track test I'd love to see is between the TDF and the Pista! Maybe a few track tests! High speed vs more technical... Oh well, back to reality!

 

Official figures are 7,9s to 200kph for the TDF and 7,6s for the Pista.

http://corporate.ferrari.com/en/f12tdf-track-level-performance-road

 

That's indeed official

 

I'd trade that three tenths of a second for the music of the V12 engine any day of the week!

 

No better, no worst. Simply a different league.

 

Weight matters.