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How much is 20K miles worth?

Discussion in 'FF/GTC4Lusso/F12/812S' started by obbob, Aug 20, 2019.

?

Which would you choose?

  1. 25K mile F12 at a $25K cash

  2. 6k mile F12

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  1. obbob

    obbob Formula Junior

    Aug 14, 2017
    702
    Hey guys,

    About to close 1-2 deals on a Ferrari F12. Both cars nearly identical spec and model year. From initial inspection, both cars are similar in condition.

    Only difference is one car has 25K miles, while the other has 6K miles. The price difference between the two is $25K.

    Now, personally, I'm okay with a high mileage car. I plan to drive this F12 about 4-5K miles a year so it works out for me. However, the unfortunate fact of the market is that buyers are very sensitive to mileage for Ferrari.

    So the question is: do you guys think that a slashing 20K miles off of the car is worth getting paying an extra $25K?

    My logic is that 20K miles will depreciate a car more than $25K, so paying only $25K less for the high mileage car is relatively not a good deal, but feel free to challenge me on that!

    If it makes a difference, the high mileage car is a single owner, while low mileage is a 3 owner car. The high mileage car can also Certify the car with 2 years of warranty for $8K.
     
    Bamsefar likes this.
  2. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    12,801
    only depends on whether or not you actually drive it 5k miles a year and for how many years. if you plan to keep for one year buy the lower mile car. if you plan keeping for 5 yrs then buy the higher mile one.

    cant answer the question without knowing the asking prices - are they 200 or 300 etc. it matters and number is a smaller or bigger % of denominator.
     
  3. obbob

    obbob Formula Junior

    Aug 14, 2017
    702
    The two vehicles in question:
    High mileage:
    https://www.millermotorcars.com/2016-ferrari-f12-berlinetta-c-2946.htm

    Lower Mileage:
    https://www.marshallgoldman.com/inventory/used-2016-ferrari-f12-berlinetta-rear-wheel-drive-2d-coupe-zff74ufa5g0219316
     
  4. C50

    C50 Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 19, 2016
    1,232
    808
    Have you checked pricing on recently sold 2011 599s with similar delta in mileage (eg 30k and 50k) to see if there is a significant premium for the relatively lower mileage?

    If your plan is 5y ownership with 25k more miles on the clock, it may be the market crystal ball will not significantly distinguish between the two odo readings. The depreciation curves may converge at some point and render the two vehicles essentially equivalent.

    In this case, buying the higher mileage car would be my recommendation.

    Edit: besides, I prefer the Daytona seats in the higher mileage option compared with the seats in the lower mileage offering
     
    sherrillt and obbob like this.
  5. kiryu

    kiryu Formula Junior

    Mar 28, 2016
    372
    Los Angeles
    The high mileage car "feels" like 170-180 wholesale (color/options). I would go for the high mileage one since the f12 is still depreciating pretty quick, but i wouldnt pay over 190 retail for it.
     
    Caphill, DRYHOLE and obbob like this.
  6. obbob

    obbob Formula Junior

    Aug 14, 2017
    702
    Turns out the AutoCheck report has an incorrect odometer reading on it. It shows that the first year of the car drove 12348 miles. I'm almost certain the odometer was set to the trip computer and it was reading 1234.8 miles, but the DMV person punched it in as a 10k+ number.

    While I know it's a typo, would you still purchase the car knowing that future buyers who swear by Autocheck will run away?
     
  7. rocketman

    rocketman Formula 3
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    Oct 1, 2009
    1,201
    No shields on the high mileage car
     
  8. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Aug 22, 2002
    12,801
    As long as the annual service records corroborate that thesis. I think id save the extra 25k and go with the cheaper car.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  9. 3POINT8

    3POINT8 Formula 3

    Jan 23, 2014
    2,135
    I may be the outlier here but I would go with the lower mileage car. I am pretty sure if you drove it 25k miles it would depreciate much more than $25k. Plus I like the spec slightly better.
     
    Sav35, mikesufka, Caeruleus11 and 2 others like this.
  10. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 17, 2001
    27,507
    Paris / Chicago
    Full Name:
    Andrew Menasce
    The 25k miles car should be cheaper by more than $25k. For some reasons, Ferraris on the US market are harder to sell once they pass the 10k and 20k miles threshold.

    I would say if all else is similar, I'd try to get it for an extra 15k cheaper (40k total).
     
    arizonaitalian, Sav35 and obbob like this.
  11. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 11, 2013
    9,259
    Seems to me the question is what happens if you drive the car as you describe: 4-5k miles/ year. Say you keep it 3 years so that is 15k miles. So you are comparing selling a car with 40k miles vs one with 21k miles. What's delta then? In 3 years it will be 2022 so these cars will be 6-7 years old- I don't think F12s with ~20k miles will be totally uncommon. The higher mileage cars will be less common. Also, a point to make is what if you don't drive the car that much or don't keep it that long. The 21k miles are already there, you can't erase them. I think the 6k miles car at $25k more is a safer deal.
     
  12. jac

    jac Karting

    Nov 4, 2005
    95
    Full Name:
    jack cohen
    I like to go low miles and bring it back to average. I purchased a 2400 mile 458 this year and happily have around 4k and counting.
     
  13. NYC Fred

    NYC Fred Formula Junior

    Sep 28, 2010
    832
    A plus, IMO.
     
    davemqv, audi_328, sherrillt and 3 others like this.
  14. Adamas

    Adamas F1 Rookie
    Sponsor Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jan 13, 2012
    4,556
    Baltimore County
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    Mike
  15. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    12,801
    yup
     
    sherrillt likes this.
  16. TeamF1Jr

    TeamF1Jr Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 8, 2003
    2,309
    Lake Mead
    I'm surprised the high mileage driver side seat bolsters look that good. I'd figure they'd be scraped to hell, looks like the owner was fairly cautious. To me at least, the condition of the seat bolster says a lot about the owner.
     
  17. rumen1

    rumen1 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jun 23, 2012
    1,134
    Bulgaria
    Agree. I also have a special move to get to the inside without touching the pads of the seat and I have teached also my wife to do the same. :D

    Actually this is one of the reasons for me to always want the carbon seats - because they are manually adjusted and I can put my seat backwards every time I get out of the car.

    Also the side shields are really overrated option. Some cars really look better without them.

    As for the mileage - I personally would not pay 25K more for a lower mileage car, which you will put more miles anyway...
     
    350MH83 likes this.
  18. Kauai

    Kauai Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 24, 2015
    29
    Estero, FL
    I have a 1850 mile 2016 for sale.
     
  19. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Dec 13, 2009
    13,344
    Charleston, SC
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    Curt
    $25k is still $25K.

    If I were to buy it and drive it, I'd pick the higher mileage car. You are going to loose money. Look at the 599's. They're under $100k now, under $120k 10 years out.
    As others mentioned mileage only becomes important for the next buyer of the car and if you have to factor him into the equation. I suspect that if you buy the low mileage example, if you own it for 5-10 years the same buyer will be asking the same question.. should I buy a higher mileage example for $120 or the lower mileage example for $130? Doesn't matter. I'd get the higher mileage example if it were me and put the $25k into anything else that pleased me. Or, old it for any repairs or options I might want.
     
    Gary Sandberg and sherrillt like this.
  20. mikesufka

    mikesufka F1 Rookie
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    Mar 4, 2006
    3,213
    St. Cloud, MN
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    Mike Sufka
    Beautiful cars BTW !

    MDS
     
  21. George Vosburgh

    George Vosburgh F1 Rookie

    May 26, 2011
    2,790
    Pittsburgh, PA
    The high mileage car has been cared for by someone who really liked the car. The low mileage car has been turned over three times and probably abused with every owner.
     
  22. rocketman

    rocketman Formula 3
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    Oct 1, 2009
    1,201
    FYI....The vehicle at Miller has been sitting for quite some time.
     
  23. LightGuy

    LightGuy Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 4, 2004
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    Texas
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    David
    The low milage car also has the lightweight wheels. Shields are a plus dont kid yourself. My opinion on Ferraris is to buy the best example that you can justify affording. Totally agree on comparing 599 values to find a future price estimate. And how are 50k mile 599s selling ?
     
    DRYHOLE and obbob like this.
  24. obbob

    obbob Formula Junior

    Aug 14, 2017
    702
    The low mileage car is a really great example.

    It’s just unfortunate that the Autocheck has a typo. The CarFax does dispute the Autocheck by showing a 1006 mile reading just 8 days prior to the erroneous 12300 mile reading, but many people would just take one look and run without delving further.

    I’m still debating myself whether that’s enough proof to move forward with that car.
     
  25. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 11, 2013
    9,259
    That is a shame, there's no way to get Autocheck to rectify this? The shields are a plus for resale. You will have a hard time selling without them.
     

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