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How much longer do we have to suffer?

Discussion in 'F1' started by TheMayor, Dec 5, 2018.

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Ferrari will win a WDC and WCC in how many years?

This poll will close on Mar 15, 2019 at 10:12 PM.
  1. Next year is the charm!

    18 vote(s)
    29.5%
  2. Two more years

    8 vote(s)
    13.1%
  3. Three more years

    7 vote(s)
    11.5%
  4. Four more years

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Not until Hamilton quits

    11 vote(s)
    18.0%
  6. Not until Mercedes quits

    8 vote(s)
    13.1%
  7. Never

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. I don't want to think that far into the future. It's depressing.

    9 vote(s)
    14.8%
  1. TheMayor

    TheMayor Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Every year we say "this is the year". Well, is it?
     
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  2. johnireland

    johnireland Formula 3
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    Mar 19, 2017
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    It could be next year or in ten years. We all know Ferrari's weaknesses and we all know Mercedes' strengths. And that is what will make it sweet when it finally does happen. But the real danger is if fans no longer care. Watching two Goliaths (Ferrari and Mercedes) slugging has become dull. I would like to see more of David vs Goliath. That is why Max at Red Bull is capturing so much attention from fans of the sport. Changes are needed in F1 to make it less like boxing and more like MMA.
     
  3. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 F1 Veteran
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    I say 2 more years for both titles. So 2020. Vettel to win the WDC title. He and the pitwall need to be almost error free for 2019. Hopefully Leclerc "ups" Vettels game. Ferrari needs to capitalize in Mercedes mistakes......and possibly RedBull.

    Leclerc is in a learning phase. 2nd year in F1 and 1st year up front with the big boys. By 2020, he and Vettel should clinch both titles.
     
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  4. stavura

    stavura Formula Junior

    Sep 1, 2016
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    I say next season is game on.
     
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  5. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
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    Dave
    Do you guys think Vettel is the driver to win for Ferrari?

    Seems to me (and I could be 100% wrong) that Hamilton is in his head, and when it gets tight, he gets tight and Hamilton just stays the course.

    Until the guys behind the wheel at Ferrari can get past that, they're never gonna win a championship. Better chance for a different Mercedes driver to do it than someone from the outside in another brand.

    How many years has Vettel been close well into the season, only to fade in the stretch?

    I enjoy the races for the racing, so it's ok with me if almost any driver is competitive on any given race day, except (and I can't explain this) Max.

    I'd love for Ferrari to get it together next year, I just don't see it happening.

    D
     
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  6. maulaf

    maulaf Formula 3

    Feb 24, 2011
    1,392
    Cape Town
    how do you conclude on that? how often have Vettel and Hamilton actually raced each other this year?
    It was a weird year for Vettel but I would think he has raced under bigger pressure in the past and done quite well. In the opposite, even after weird drama he appears super balanced and level headed.
     
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  7. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
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    Seems pretty obvious. Some guys handle pressure differently. Seb clearly is not a "catch up" kind of driver. (Although truthfully, most of them are not.)

    He presses and makes mistakes that cost him races. Maybe he's getting bad advice from team strategists as well, which just means those guys have Hamilton in their heads as well.

    If you've ever competed against the same opponent several times, and lost several times, you start to think, "What am I doing wrong, or is he just better than me?" then you press, and it just gets worse.

    Given the prevailing notion here that the cars are relatively equal , Ferrari and Mercedes, then the only other explanation is the drivers, and there seems to be a common theme here that Vettel IS the better driver, and I don't see that. Given that, as long as the cars are relatively equal, and Vettel has to beat Hamilton to win a championship, I don't see it happening as long as Hamilton doesn't lose his edge.

    D
     
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  8. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 Veteran

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    #8 daytona355, Dec 6, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
    When was the ferrari equal to Mercedes in the second half of the season?

    As soon as Mercedes discovered the magic wheels, they raced away and no one could catch them. When they dropped them, the rest caught and beat them. Sorry Dave, no driver since Schumacher has overcome a car deficit, it’s a fact

    When the ferrari was equal to the Mercedes early on, Vettel won races, beating Elton. Once the pitwall realised the car wasn’t good enough, the strategies went out the window. Vettel was guilty of overdriving and trying to compensate for the car and the ineptitude of the team, he was beaten by ferrari

    Elton collapses at the drop of a hat, we’ve all seen him go to pot during plenty of races, whining and moaning with no idea how to sort things out in the cockpit. He’s fast given the equipment, but he’s no brain surgeon in the car like an Alonso or Michael. He’s beatable with the right equipment

    Bottles was castrated this year, driving for the team only, unable to win, or even to challenge, at the request of the team. If he fought Elton like Nico, do you think Elton would’ve cruised around like he did?


    Forza Ferrari..... the only racing team and car marque that matters. Italia forever It’s easier to apologise than it is to ask permission
     
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  9. P.Singhof

    P.Singhof F1 Rookie

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    Rosberg did it, so why should Vettel not be able to do the same? Vettel needs an equal car and the same confidence in the team and he is in...especially the second one was missing in the second half of the season and the wrong development setting the Ferrari behind the Mercedes did the rest
     
  10. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
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    Sorry Steve, the Ferrari WAS the equal, I'd argue the drivers were not. Great drivers overcome obstacles. Are you trying to tell me that Schumacher ONLY won when he had the best car?

    Great drivers find a way to win, or stay close enough that when the team improves the car over the course of the season, they can recover AND win.

    D
     
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  11. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
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    You proved my point.

    D
     
  12. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
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    What you're not getting is I'd love Ferrari to climb back on top. Schumacher was my favorite, despite some of his race tactics, for many years, and I've rooted for Ferrari since the early 70's.

    I'm not arguing with the notion that I'd like them to win. I'm arguing that they're not equipped to win with Vettel at the wheel. I think he's soft.

    D
     
  13. P.Singhof

    P.Singhof F1 Rookie

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    No I did not, because having an equal car is not enough, the team behind it must be equal as well and you have to trust it. Mercedes has shown over the years that you can 100% rely on them, the same certainly can not be said about Ferrari. Put Lewis in the Ferrari and let him deal with the Ferrari strategists and he would most likely run into the same trouble. Put Seb in the Mercedes (pretty much the same situation as at RB) and I could do the same Lewis did...The difference between Lewis winning and Seb loosing is far less the driver in my opinion but the environment they are racing in....
     
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  14. P.Singhof

    P.Singhof F1 Rookie

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    Neither Seb nore Lewis are Schumacher!
     
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  15. william

    william F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
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    All this argument is really bad publicity for Ferrari, and I am wondering why anyone would want to race for the Scuderia if they are that bad.
     
  16. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    6,149
    Second is "not that bad" it is just not good enough.
     
  17. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    That's what I think myself, but for the tifosi it's winning or nothing, it seems.
     
  18. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    My money is on Mercedes winning as long as they are in F1, and then pulling away when they have enough.

    In my mind, the Mercedes team is just superior to the Scuderia as a racing enterprise, all passion taken aside.

    Ferrari will stay the second best team at the moment, as long as Red Bull do not have a decent power unit yet.
     
  19. Lotaz

    Lotaz Formula 3

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    I don't want to think that far into the future. It's depressing.


     
  20. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 Veteran

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    Were you watching the second half of the season Dave? It was clear that the Ferrari was inferior to the Mercedes once the special wheel rims were allowed, and a few other tweaks they made, while Ferrari went off on the wrong development tangent. Michael won in a second rate car through his ability, something neither Elton nor Seb have proven they can do
     
  21. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
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    Are we, the fans, content with the notion that only the top 3 teams contend for race wins or titles?
     
  22. TheMayor

    TheMayor Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Sometimes you have to kick a few butts to get people's attention.
     
  23. Jakuzzi

    Jakuzzi Formula 3

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    I lived through the 1979-2000 drought..............
     
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  24. TheMayor

    TheMayor Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Me too. Not fun.
     
  25. Whisky

    Whisky F1 World Champ
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    'we'?
    I have never said next year.
    It will be either when Mercedes quits, or the rules are changed to help one team or hurt another.
     

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