How Much You Guys Think?

Its obvious you're somehow related to the seller so I understand why you're so defensive about it, but just like pretty much every other mod out there the price of the mod is never fully recapped in the sale.

In addition to that, the car now has a story. Ferrari's with stories are never a good thing, it doesn't really matter what the story is. Its also now not in the same configuration it was when it left the factory, that's another ding. Lastly the seller has been trying to hide it, which also hurts the value. If he had been upfront with the full parts list, lot sof pictures and information on the swap, he would have mitigated it substantially. This stuff may not matter to you, and it may not matter to a good portion of the buyers, but it very much matters to some and that will hurt the value, both now and when it comes time to sell it again for the next owner.

 

I think most understand the difference. What do you think the correct terminology would be?

If not converted from F1 to Manual, "changed" from F1 to manual? Revised?

The exact wording is of little importance as we are all talking about the same thing.

 

I agree with this post, and i bet most likely the reason for some of the criticism on car.


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FWIW, when I was in the market for a gated 360 earlier this year, I wouldn’t have considered a car with aftermarket wheels or stereo, but was happy to get a car with the black challenge grill in the back and it didn’t matter to me whether it was installed at the factory or later. I wouldn’t have minded getting a 3 pedal convert and considered getting a F1 and having it done. I feel like it should be disclosed and probably end up with a small discount, but I would have assumed the price would more closely align with the 3 pedal cars than the F1.

I feel like the chance of having a problem down the road related to the conversion is small, especially for a car that you know will have expensive maintenance problems either way.

 

Generally speaking there is always some depreciation right out the door. I would consider the fractional value of the labor cost to be low, with some increase based on the warranty which you mentioned. So maybe more than 5k, or whatever the parts value is, but nowhere near 35k. This opinion is based on a couple decades of aircraft ownership and the many modifications which are typical (engines, avionics, structure).

 

You really wouldn’t have considered a car with an aftermarket stereo? Why? Why not just reduce your offer by the $1,000 it would cost you to replace the radio with a stock unit?

 

In thinking about this a little more if I were the seller and entertaining a market entry price I might be tempted to try and get a little more than the best 360 three pedal car out there. I think that is sort of where the target numbers in the F-Chat sales thread come from. The tough part is the highest priced 360's are usually collector miles cars. I think there is one for 124,000 right now. If there were a 50,000 mile three pedal 360 on the market it would probably be for sale around 75-85K. How much more is a 430 gated car considering this floor? It will take a special buyer, as with almost all of these cars. The good news is that it is "sellable" and that is due to the conversion and the scarcity of the other cars.

 

Nope, did you see all those wires Pepper pulled out? I figure unless you’re going through everything like he is, you just don’t know what some installer did in there that might give you electrical problems down the road, and what else might they have done to the car?

 

Art - how much would you charge for a F430 conversion beginning to end? Parts, labor, etc? Is it really $35k?

 

Well, that was somewhat of an extreme example, but still nothing to fear. I looked at that car a couple of years ago and the custom work done was extensive, but I didn't see anything that couldn't be easily reversed in a few hours of work. It's not rocket science.

Most cars I see with non-OEM radios are just aftermarket plug and play heads with upgraded door speakers. There's really no reason to fear those and no reason to expect a simple stereo upgrade will have any effect on the operation of the car. That's just an irrational fear.

The car I eventually bought had a similar large sub-woofer taking up much of the rear shelf. It was a beautiful piece of custom work and must have cost a ton of money, but I wanted the rear shelf for storage space, so I got rid of it. It took me all of ten minutes to remove it and make it stock. I kept the aftermarket head unit in the car because it's an excellent stereo. It has an integral Sirius radio, GPS navigation system, hands-free phone interface, backup camera display, and other gadgets that make time spent in the car more pleasurable. If the car did not have those features, I would want to install them at my own expense.

However, in case of the remote possibility I ever need to sell the car, I also have a stock head unit on the shelf that can be installed in a few minutes. That should satisfy the #bonestockferrari crowd and appease the Pebble Beach concourse judges.

 

What would Ferrari charge to convert a 430 F1 to gated?

If that was done then i would think that the value would then be very close to an original gated.Similar to the 550 /599 with FHP/HGTC added by the dealer other than leaving the gates at Maranello.

However when done by third party then it really is a case of finding someone who just wants to enjoy and drive it, but the market will decide as usual.

GLWS.

 

I don't think that compares. The value in the 550/599 handling packages is not the rarity but the performance features, but the value today in a 430 3-pedal is entirely linked to its rarity. Otherwise, an F1 would be worth more as that was a $10k, or whatever it was, option over the 3-pedal manual.

 

BTW, as a data point a clean red/tan 430 coupe, factory 3-pedal, 17k miles sold on BaT for $140k on 12/4/2017... That puts serious downward price pressure on the $140k that owner was/is asking in his Fchat ad (for red/tan, 52k miles, tired looking interior, converted F1->3-pedal)...

 

The larger West Coast Dealers are at 210/hr for labor. We get a 5 dollar discount out here! I dont think this is who you want learning the conversion process.

 

That missed the points. The parts changed don't matter. You can't add a Z28 sticker to a V6 Camaro and expect it to be accepted as a Z28. Does that make more sense?

What I find unreal is the inability to grasp the concept that Ferrari, Ferrari, Ferrari produced a rare car, and the market values it at a premium..what you did is produce a CLONE of a rare car...that DOES NOT produce the same market value as an original equipment car with a build sheet from the manufacturer. It was taken apart and modified in Texas, not produced from scratch in Italy.

Typically, aftermarket modifications add little to no value, and in many cases, devalue the cars as most buyer prefer stock so they can have the choice to (or not to) modify as they see fit. If you honestly invested $35k into this conversion on a 52k mile car, that was an extremely unwise and unrecoverable investment. Just like the rapper that spends $15k on a stupid chrome paint job and sells the car for $10k under market because it now requires a paint job to be tolerable to 99% of the buyers. Like I said before, it's worth a little more than a regular F1 with the same miles, ONLY because there is a buyer out there that wants a real gated, but is unwilling or unable to afford a REAL one. In all actuality, the car isn't rare, isn't particularly special, and isn't worth anywhere near the premium of a gated manual 430 from the factory.

 

I think the issue is that this was not really an aftermarket modification. The car originally came with an F1 option, but the new owner decided to perform an F1 option delete. There are no aftermarket parts or systems in this car due to the F1 deletion.

In a similar context, if your car originally came with the Ferrari sports exhaust option and you replaced it with the Ferrari standard exhaust, it would not constitute an aftermarket modification.

I agree that this was not a wise investment, but I seriously doubt the owner did it for the profit potential. I don't think anyone is ever going to get rich converting 360's or 430's to manuals. The market price difference is just not enough to cover more than the actual cost of the work. It's a losing proposition.

 

It's righteous work and a worthy pursuit to allow more three pedal cars to the deserving!

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True, the aftermarket reference was more of a broad example, it's definitely a "plus" using all Ferrari parts, but again, since the rarity of the manual version of the car drives it's market value. My car originally had 430 challenge wheels on it. It was a selling point but the actual value that was brought to the car was 0, nothin', nada...off the car, I sold them for a real good price and went back to stockers (wasn't a fan of the challenges). Even if I kept them and turned my car into a CS clone, it still would be a modified Modena, not worth anywhere near what a factory CS would be. The car in question here is a modified F1 car, not a manual 430.

 

Respectfully this is your opinion.

I have learned throughout the years that MY opinion does not make the market. I just respond to it or better yet try to anticipate it.

 

Then why all the indignation?

 

Took high mile “average” 430 F1 that has to compete for sale with ~150 other cars, most “better” (no disrespect just less miles, more options, no aftermarket vinyl, etc). perhaps worth 80-90k, added 35k for conversion. If he can make an easier sale for say 120k it’s worth it. It’s a tough market currently and possibly a way to separate from the pack and not underprice the car.


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I thought I was offering constructive dialog?

 

So at best he gets his money back. But I doubt this car will go for 120K.

 

As a true asset to F-Chat, you deserve way more recognition.