How often should the F1 charge when in gear?

Hi there,

How often should the F1 pump charge when a gear is engaged and the car is in standstill? E.g. when you're waiting at traffic light in first gear?

For mine it takes just 15-20 seconds. That is I'm approaching red light and stop the car. I hear the click of the relay and the F1 pump starts running. Once it is finished it just takes these 15-20 seconds until the relay clicks and the pump starts to charge again.

Is that normal? How long does it take in your car?

 

It is cycling too fast. It should run and charge the accumulator with F1 fluid under pressure until the pressure switch turns the pump of. The system then uses the pressurized fluid from the accumulator to open the clutch and make the shifts until the pressure drops below the pressure switch on pressure (which usually takes 2-4 shifts).

It sounds like your accumulator is defective (has no charge in it) and the system may have some leakage, causing pressure to bleed off without shifting. You should be able to sit with the car idling in gear for 5 minutes before the pump runs.
I would replace the accumulator first and then see how long it takes before the pump runs.

 

Here's a great write-up on accumulator replacement by "Watson"

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/f1-accumulator-bulb-replacement-procedure.555260/

 

5 Minutes? Is it? Oh, I have a serious problem then. Thanks for the hint with the accumalator. Unfortunately it's not that. I already replaced it and it works nicely. When the engine is off the pressure is held for > 60 minutes.

My problem occurs only when a gear is engaged and I'm running in idle (e.g. at a traffic light). The relay is clicking in intervalls of 15-20 seconds all the time. I have no oil loss. So I guess it's really an issue with the solenoid (EV0) as nothing else is actuated here.

 

EV0? Do you mean the EVF (clutch solenoid)?

Could the pressure sensor be a possible fault?

 

You're right, Ferrari calls it EVF.

I don't believe it's the pressure sensor. It directly depends on the actuation of the clutch. When running in idle in N the pressure behaves as expected. No noteable pressure loss. But immediately after engaging a gear it starts to loose pressure. I don't mean the initial loss which happens because the clutch is actuated. I have a constant loss. It makes the pump run every 15-20 seconds over and over again.

But to be honest I have no idea what the fault could be. I already replaced EVF as well (with a matching part from a BMW SMG, see my post here: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/146670456/).

 

Does the F1 system constantly modulate the clutch pressure to make it slip when in gear with your foot on the brake (car at a standstill)? The manual says it only drops to Neutral after 10 minutes. If so, to me, it makes sense that there is pressure loss.

If the F1 system is doing this by controlling current to the coil, then perhaps the different resistance of your BMW solenoid coil is a factor?

Was there a time when your car was operating normally with the new solenoid? (or you haven't really noticed that you had a problem until now).

 

Although not sure this is what I would guess, too. Probably it sets the clutch right before PIS so you can pull-off quickly. If so, it would mean that it is in a feedback loop. But this would also mean that any deviation in resistance would be corrected by this loop (at least to some extent).

The clutch works perfectly. Shifts are quick (well, for an 355F1) and smooth. It also pulls off as usual.

Yes, good point! But unfortunately this behaviour happens with both, the original coil (Ferrari) and the new (BMW). I checked that by only swapping the hydraulic part. Maybe the Ferrari coil has a defect and for that shows a similar behaviour? That would explain a lot.

No, unfortunately not.


I need a working, original Ferrari EVF solenoid, I'm afraid.

 

Best of luck with that. When I had solenoid trouble last year I spent months searching the world for a replacement with no luck.
In the end I had to buy an entire (second hand) F1 power unit for an eye watering cost, albeit around half the price of a new one.

IMO this is the only serious flaw in the 355F1 system (which I absolutely love).
You really should be able to buy these parts - as you can for the 360 onwards - without resorting to what I had to do.

 

While searching for a solution I came across your thread. Knowing your story is what frightens me! Usually I do not fear the costs, but in this case it's different!

Any chance you'd sell EV1 or EV2? I think they are of the same type as EVF is and thus might fit.

 

It's my understanding that the EFV is a proportional flow valve (QPV) or "delivery proportional" valve. The EV1 and EV2 are PPV valves (Proportional Pressure Valves) and are fundamentally different in operation.

https://www.sequparts.com/product/qpv02-solenoid-valve-ferrari-f1/

 

Thanks, you're absolutely right! I mixed that up.