How to clone a black remote fob .... | Page 4 | FerrariChat
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How to clone a black remote fob ....

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by eric355, Dec 15, 2006.

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  1. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Five Time F1 World Champ
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    #76 mwr4440, Jun 13, 2007
    All,

    Respectfully if I may, and on a related note. Yep, you can clone electronic stuff usually pretty easily as the thieves here in Europe discovered. They have been using for years a process with a cell phone connected to a Palm Pilot.

    The former Eastern European car thieves are especially adroit. A friend's car (not an F-Car) along with 17 others disappeared within a 30 minute span from a town in the Czech Republic three years ago. He and I had to get the local cops to take us back to the Czech-German border.

    The thieves either find a parked or follow a moving car they want until the owner either unlocks it or locks it via the wireless remote. The slightly modified cell phone and standard Palm catch all the data as the fob passes it to the auto, freq, PIN, the works.

    You can then guess what happens when the owner leaves. Please be carefull when using those things, like never in a crowded parking lot. Use the "hard" key whenever possible.

    I'd hate to see your dream machine "evaporate."

    V/r, MWR4440
     
  2. eric355

    eric355 Formula 3
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    #77 eric355, Jun 13, 2007
    That is why rolling code technology is used now. Repeating what has just been transmitted to the car will lead to an alarm trig on the F355. Cracking the key from a single message, with more than 180 bits changing from a message to the other, is extremely difficult ... but certainly not impossible.

    Cloning a remote as i proposed will not endanger the car more than it was with the original remote
     
  3. Dong Juan

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    #78 Dong Juan, Jan 23, 2008
    +1 ...........does anyone know what that metal tag code is for???
     
  4. 285ferrari

    285ferrari Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #79 285ferrari, Jan 24, 2008
    KEY code-----Has nothing to do with the remotes!
     
  5. 285ferrari

    285ferrari Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #80 285ferrari, Jan 24, 2008
    Bought an extra remote awhile back----just sent out to have it cloned----I'll let you guys no how it goes when I get it back
     
  6. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie

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    #81 ferraridriver, Jan 24, 2008
    Anxiously waiting with baited breath.

    Did you have to send the red remote with it?
     
  7. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie

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    #82 ferraridriver, Jan 24, 2008
    I feel like such a fool

    I just spent hours searching everywhere in the house for my PIN code card.
    All the files I have on cars in general, and all my drawers to no avail.

    Early on I found a card that said do not lose, had my serial number and the words “Pin Code”, but nothing in the space for a PIN so I kept looking.

    Finally I noticed the card I had found was actually two pieces of paper and on tearing off the top piece there it was. The PIN code!

    I can sleep easy now :) :)
     
  8. 285ferrari

    285ferrari Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #83 285ferrari, Jan 24, 2008
    No---He is cloning the black with a black..
     
  9. mjw599

    mjw599 Formula Junior
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    #84 mjw599, Aug 11, 2008

    Who can clone these Calo?
     
  10. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #85 tazandjan, Aug 11, 2008
    I have another question for you technical whiz kids out there. I picked up an extra red key fob, naturally without the PIN. Can you figure out what the PIN is from the signal received from the fob? The only time the PIN is actually used is when the ECU is programmed to accept a new set of keys. Otherwise the ECU is just looking for the rolling identifier each fob transmits.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  11. eric355

    eric355 Formula 3
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    #86 eric355, Aug 17, 2008
    I can ... :)
     
  12. eric355

    eric355 Formula 3
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    #87 eric355, Aug 17, 2008
    No way! The number of transmitted bits is very important, several hundreds, and more than 180 are different each time you press the remote.
    Even when comparing the contents of a "red" EEPROM and a "black" EEPROM, I have not been able yet to identify the PIN code.
     
  13. 285ferrari

    285ferrari Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #88 285ferrari, Aug 18, 2008
    YES he can!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Been 8 months since Eric cloned a black fob for me and it has worked flawlessy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks again, Eric!!!!
     
  14. eric355

    eric355 Formula 3
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    #89 eric355, Aug 19, 2008
    Thanks Robbie ... it was a pleasure :)
     
  15. saw1998

    saw1998 F1 Veteran

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    #90 saw1998, Aug 19, 2008
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2008
    Eric:

    Where were you hiding! I did a search, but could not find anything on-subjected. I didn't think it was possible to "clone" the black fob, due to the rolling code. ...guess you learn something new every day. I just spent $275.00 (on eBay) for a brand new set of three remotes still in the Ricambi bag. I guess not too bad!! Although, I have yet to re-program my Alarm ECU. Could you PM me to let me know how much you charge to clone a black remote. Thanks!
     
  16. eric355

    eric355 Formula 3
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    #91 eric355, Aug 19, 2008
    Scott,

    PM sent.
    You were partially right. The cloned fob has the bad idea to send again the same codes than the original one but the ECU seems to be OK with that provided the code is not repeated immediately. As soon as the cloned fob send new codes, it works and allows to control the car.
    It seems you have in hands almost all what you need to avoid cloning ... EXCEPT IF you have not the PIN code which is actually implemented in the ECU!
     
  17. eric355

    eric355 Formula 3
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    #92 eric355, Aug 19, 2008
  18. wrxmike

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    #93 wrxmike, Aug 21, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  19. jayz

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    #94 jayz, Aug 24, 2008
  20. LetsJet

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    #95 LetsJet, Aug 24, 2008
    Can anyone verify this? This would be a good way to go.
     
  21. 285ferrari

    285ferrari Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #96 285ferrari, Aug 24, 2008
    I agree-----Hopefully eric355 can shed some light on whether these can be used---if so would be alot cheaper for sure....
     
  22. duskybird

    duskybird F1 World Champ
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    #97 duskybird, Aug 24, 2008
    This may have possibilities. The stock Ferrari alarm is the same for US, Canada and Australia.
     
  23. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #98 tazandjan, Sep 4, 2008
    Eric- Thanks for the info. Looks like I have a nice paper weight red fob.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  24. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
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    #99 Skidkid, Sep 5, 2008
    You could always have it cloned. It would basically become just like a black fob you have now.
     
  25. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #100 tazandjan, Sep 7, 2008
    John- You are right. I believe the only time the alarm ECU uses the PIN code is when learning a new red fob PIN or reprogramming the ECU using the existing red fob to recognize new black key fobs. The rest of the time it is just looking for the serial number and rolling code transmitted by either a red or black fob.

    I have the original PIN code for my alarm ECU and could even reprogram the ECU to recognize my unknown PIN code red fob and my existing black fob. But then I would be dead if the fobs failed because I would not know the PIN.

    Since the PIN is only used on rare occasions, I was hoping someone would be able to read it. Cloning may be the only way to go.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
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