How to fix Formula one | FerrariChat

How to fix Formula one

Discussion in 'F1' started by TheMayor, Jul 27, 2010.

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  1. TheMayor

    TheMayor Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    #1 TheMayor, Jul 27, 2010
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2010
    Ok, who's got some good ideas? I'll give you mine.

    1) No wings and no defusers. All handling is from mechanical grip, what little aerodynamics you can muster with the body, and electronics. Why? Make it easier to pass, less worry about screwing your race in a minor bump destroying your wing. Also, make the technology invented improve ordinary cars on the street who could care less about aerodynamic tweaks and wings.

    2) Multiple engine and transmission configurations allowed. 6 vs 8 vs 10 vs 12 vs turbo vs electric assist vs super charger vs gas turbine or whatever. Reason: Increase engineering creativity and possible benefits in research to real world cars. Spend less time in the wind tunnel and more time trying to engineer new concepts.

    3) 3 tire types ONLY that will be used for all tracks. No restrictions on which you can use and how many you want to us. But, no special formulas for each track surface. Reason: reduce costs, less testing, and bring consistency to the problem of surface adhesion. Also, reducing reseach costs will bring in more manufacturers to want to participate. Teams are free to change manufacturers from race to race (not the entire season).

    4) All driver contracts only good for one year. If the driver screws up or doesn't perform each year, they're out.

    5) Cars can be have major updates only 2 times a year. Reason: Engineers need to design in more flexibility and reduce costs. The car has a design problem? Deal with it at the track.

    6) The Cosworth pool. Each engine manufacturer must put in a small amount of money into Cosworth who's only purpose to support R & D of new engines. It will not be for supplying engines to minor teams (they must buy them with their own money). But, smaller teams need an independent engine supplier to avoid conficts of interest.

    7) Elimination of rules regulating engine changes, gearbox changes, team orders, and tire changes. Refueling continues to be banned as a safety issue.


    Formula one says it's the "top level" of motorsports. I don't see why making any of these changes would make it any less so. Yes, speed would go down (at least in the corners) but the technology, engineering, and drivers would still be the best in the world.

    Anyone else?
     
  2. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

    Nov 18, 2007
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    I think you should have some restrictions on motors otherwise it would be too hard to police and things could become outlandish. I also think all engines need to be piston...we saw what happened with the turbine car at Indy and that thing sounded boring as hell.

    I like about everything else. I think that wings can be left but make them much smaller and make sure the floor of the car cannot aid in aerodynamics. I also think that they should use mondays at every circuit (after the race so no advantage is gained) as test days. I mean, all the equipment is already there so it cuts costs, gives the fan/sponsors more opportunity to see the cars and still allows teams to test new parts.
     
  3. Sir Paul

    Sir Paul Formula Junior

    Feb 22, 2008
    537
    HONG KONG
    Did anyone see the tribute to Ayrton Senna on Top Gear. Look at how those cars used to bob around and twitch left and right as they went down the track....four wheel drifting round some corners.....with 1200 Horses under the Hood too. Bring that back (with modern day safety protections) and we would see some real racing. No problems or shortages of power for overtaking! Real racing!
     
  4. bigodino

    bigodino F1 World Champ
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    Improve overtaking possibilities and the German GP problems are eliminated.

    I wonder if it's possible the have tires that also work on the dirty parts of the tracks?
     
  5. DGS

    DGS Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #5 DGS, Jul 27, 2010
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2010
    No esoteric brake materials.

    Rotors from compounds applicable to street cars. (The CF brakes used in racing are useless at street temps.)

    Eliminate the five G stops every corner, and it's easier to pass under braking.

    With brakes that fade, you can still pull max braking --- you just can't do it every corner.
    So it's possible to make an opening, by picking when you choose to superheat your brakes.


    Next year is going to be far worse, with much larger rims. The reason for the rim size limit was to limit brakes in the first place.


    But mostly: BRING BACK TESTING.

    This is a makes championship. Constant development is what makes it "the pinnacle of motorsports".

    The no testing rule hasn't eliminated development. It just makes development less effective (making it harder to overcome dominance by one team),
     
  6. solofast

    solofast Formula 3

    Oct 8, 2007
    1,773
    Indianapolis
    I particularly like the removal of wings and diffusers, the bodies will still be able to generate downforce, but it will be a lot lower and there will be bigger drag penalties associated with it. They would also need to fix the ground clearance at a reasonable height (like 4 inches or so) and also outlaw progressive or variable spring rates.

    For example, if you want big underbody downforce you can decrease ground clearance by putting in very soft springs that allow the car to drop a couple of inches when some dowforce is created and then the car sits on stiff springs from then on.

    Don't expect to ever see cars sliding around anymore. Today's tires don't work that way and even in low speed autocross events the cars are hooked up and the saying "sliding is slow" is a reality.
     
  7. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    -Limit braking. At the hairpin in Hockenheim, they could brake as early as 70 meters and still make the corner. If one wants to pass, he needs to brake about 10 percent later...That's 7 meters. That's quite far if you think about it. They should be much closer to what people have on their roadcars.

    -No more fancy aero stuff. Last year the FIA made a huge mistake writing the rules, and even further, to allow the double diffuser to stay. It causes aerodynamic instability behind the cars, making overtaking by the slipstream nigh on impossible. Look at the massive crash in 2001 I believe, Melbourne. Ralf Schumacher was a good 20 meters back when he suddenly got sucked into the vacuum (perhaps he wasn't concentrating 100%) and crashed into Villeneuve. It may be a bad example since a marshal lost his life, but that was just 9 years ago. Now, a car can be 2 meters behind the other and just lose almost all available grip. It's no fun for the spectator, it's no fun for the drivers either (except for the one in front)

    -less wide front wings, very wide rear wings. No stupid winglets and stuff on it. If a team does do so, and claims it will save a baby monkey's life, they get crippled by mike tyson. No more stupid silly excuses everyone knows its a bunch of BS just to make their car faster and again, make the aerodynamics behind the car unstable, prohibiting overtaking

    -1 engine per weekend. You can use old engines during friday practice.

    -free development on engines, should be 3.5 liters maximum size and 2.5 for forced induced engines (with air restrictors? engines in the end should be about the same power...)

    -set amount of fuel for the race per car, measured at the final 'official' test day before the start of the season. Both cars are given 50 liters of fuel, 10 laps on the bloody limit (easy to govern this). Measure the consumption, then the FIA knows exactly the amount of fuel used to complete the most fuel demanding race, + 20 liters extra. So no more 'fuel save mode'. 90 minutes of pure racing bliss.

    - 3 compounds for the weekend, no special developed tires for so and so track. Soft, medium and hard tires, intermediates and full wet.

    That should help quite a bit.
     
  8. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    F1 is all about the technology. There need to be as few rules as possible so the designers can do their magic.
    Passing is an issue but the problem there lies as much in track design as it does in the cars.
    Loosen up the design rules (and leave then in place for a long enough period), allow testing and give us tracks that encourage passing.
     
  9. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

    Dec 12, 2005
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    I agree that there are too many rules. I like the thought of different engine configurations, but i think you have to open up the aero rules as well.

    Alow wings, ground effects, moveable aero, fan assists, active suspension etc... i think the big thing is to make sure the driver is fully in charge and no pit to car telemetric adjustments on the move.

    I think having a tire war will help the show as well.

    Cars need to fit a specific box size and height & weight. Open up the rules and you will see greater competition as it becomes a laboratory for new technology.
     
  10. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Plenty of passing in GP2/3. Tracks aren't the issue.
     
  11. Tony K

    Tony K Formula 3

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    Eliminate Bernie.

    Problem fixed.
     
  12. cmack

    cmack Karting

    Jan 8, 2009
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    IMO there should be an rpm restriction to 10.000.
    Engine costs is one of the key factors why smaller teams have a problem to be succesful in F1.
     
  13. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Bernie doesn't make the rules. The FIA does.

    Bernie basically arranges places where the races get held, makes sure it gets on TV and all that...

    He may say some stupid stuff quite a lot, but one should take everything he says with a truckload of salt. He's joking 99% of the time and just wants a reaction.
     
  14. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Rubbish.

    The smaller teams have to little money to develop the car aerodynamically to keep up with the rest. An F1 engine is about 150K euro, they get them from Cosworth. Lets say both cars use 10 a year so that's only 3 million.

    Their can't finish at all because of hydraulic failures, gearbox failures and electronics. They need testing to sort all of that out, and then they need to work on aerodynamics (and sorting out a good chassis may be a good thing as well...The HRT seems terrible to drive everywhere, slow, medium and highspeed corners).

    The cosworth engine is fine, it has good power compared to other cars, it's pretty reliable and apparently the fuel consumption is right in the middle.
     
  15. fluque

    fluque Formula 3

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    True that Bernie does not make the rules but has a great influence in all aspects. F1 is a business and the FIA understands that quite well. Let's see if Todt is more of an independent thinker.

    As for fixing F1 I would also start by putting Bernie in a nursing home.
     
  16. mousecatcher

    mousecatcher Formula 3

    Dec 18, 2007
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    this thread again?
     
  17. dharmadan

    dharmadan Karting

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    There should be a fixed amount of fuel, the same, maximum allowed for every race.

    No limits on engine type or size. No limits on aero.

    A minimum weight for the car.

    Everyone uses the same size wheels, but no limits on tires, compounds, and changes.
     
  18. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Go carts pass on their tiny tracks too. Its a matter of courses for horses ;)
     
  19. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    More power.

    More tire.

    Less aero.
     
  20. ApexOversteer

    ApexOversteer F1 Veteran

    Feb 15, 2007
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    Remove 75% of the aero, reduce the engines to 1,000cc and bring in at least two more tire makers and let them have at it.
     
  21. opus10583

    opus10583 Formula 3

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    Subsidize one manufacturer's R&D with penalties on the rest? Dumbest thing I've heard of since the spec 2400 formula to begin with.
     
  22. TooTall

    TooTall Karting

    Sep 15, 2006
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    2.5 litre normally aspirated, 1 litre turbo. Any number/configuration of cylinders. 17K RPM limit. Flat bottoms, nose to tail, no diffusers, no ugly-assed raised noses. Narrower front wings with only two elements, main wing and flap, no 57 little tabs, fences and diverters. No other aerodynamic devices other than front and rear wings. No part of the bodywork can stand proud of the body except mirror mounts which must have a round section. No turning vanes, barge boards, goat horns, etc. Steel brakes, yes I know it's Nascar lo-tech but it would add a lot of out-braking chances. Fuel tank must be a certain size to ensure a car an run the distance with a small reserve. All cars must start on full tanks.

    All the tires you want. Only 5 guys can touch the car during a pit stop.

    Eliminate at least one chicane at every track.

    Open the paddock to the fans

    Get rid of Bernie.
     
  23. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Great. As long as you don't call it F1 ;)
    The sport has been reduced with every Mickey Mouse restriction its been saddled with. The answer is not more of the same.
    See Insanity definition.
     
  24. Darkhorse575

    Darkhorse575 Formula Junior

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    #24 Darkhorse575, Jul 27, 2010
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2010
    +1

    Increased braking distances = increased passing opportunities.
    When it comes to passing the rules have focused too much on wings and tires.

    Iron brakes (...ahhem...cough, flame suit on.) used in Indy cars are cheaper and better for the sport's carbon footprint.
     
  25. TheMayor

    TheMayor Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    #25 TheMayor, Jul 27, 2010
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2010
    You forgot I don't respond to your nasty, overly aggressive posts. In fact, I don't think anyone does . Haven't you learned that yet?

    But, then I'm used to you throwing stones without putting forth anything worth reading as a counterpoint.
     

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