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How to prevent rust in "Header Tank"?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by christopher, Feb 14, 2004.

  1. christopher

    christopher Formula 3

    Nov 29, 2003
    1,131
    Ontario California
    Full Name:
    Christopher
    Hello again F-Chatters,

    I recently purchased a brand new"Header Tank" (Coolant Overflow) from T. Rutlands. I think it to be new old stock. Anyway, is there any way to treat it from rusting out again???

    Thank you again,

    Chris.
     
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  3. AEHaas

    AEHaas Formula 3

    May 9, 2003
    1,372
    Osprey, Florida
    Full Name:
    Ali E. Haas
    Use factory approved anitfreeze/coolant in the specified concentration. Then replace per the manufacturers schedule. Many people use their own concoctions resulting in faster deterioration of all involved parts of the coolant system.

    There are older threads to explain specifics. As a biochemist I have studied this at length, in detail.

    aehaas

    Smart people learn from their mistakes. Really smart people learn from other peoples mistakes.
     
  4. racerboy9

    racerboy9 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 3, 2003
    2,107
    I'm switching to Evans coolant which contains no water to cause rust. I am still testing it in my Chevy truck (5 months now) and so far no problems.
     
  5. AEHaas

    AEHaas Formula 3

    May 9, 2003
    1,372
    Osprey, Florida
    Full Name:
    Ali E. Haas
    How safe is Evans coolant to water pump bearings? Is it caustic to rubber or silicon seals? All materials of different composition interact with all other materials. Just because it contains no water does not mean it is better. Water is one of the best things to minimize wear on rubber parts and many seals. What does the manufacturer of you car recommend? What makes Evans better than the recommended coolant? Show me the ASTM data. Maybe I should use Evans. Prove it is better and I will be the first to change over to it.

    aehaas
     
  6. racerboy9

    racerboy9 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 3, 2003
    2,107
    Do a Google search for Evans Coolant for answers to your questions. I am as skeptical as anyone but this stuff has been around for over ten years and I tried to find a serious down side to it but haven't. I think the site addresses the water pump bearing issue and the ups and downs of normal coolants. I am test-bedding this in my Chevy truck before it goes in my Stratos, Dino GT and GTS so believe me I am skeptical. Other than the hassle of switching it over everything has been OK. I like the idea of being able to run a low or zero pressure cap as this puts less stress on all the hoses, radiator, etc. Plus you have no galvanic reactions going on in the engine with all the dissimilar metals, 370 degree boiling point and its good for at least 100,000 miles. Here is a site http://www.lubespecialist.com/coolant/coolant.htm. Evaluate it for yourself to decide if it's right for you.
     
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  8. Glassman

    Glassman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    I believe that if you have a proper PH level in your coolant ( a correct mixture ), there will be no rust. I have a car that has spent its entire life, 22 years, sitting in the garage.
    The only thing going on in the header tank is the original interior paint peeling and floating around!!
     
  9. AEHaas

    AEHaas Formula 3

    May 9, 2003
    1,372
    Osprey, Florida
    Full Name:
    Ali E. Haas
    I went to the Evans technical website http://www.evanscooling.com/html/tech1.htm#ptbl1. They do not publish any ASTM specs.

    Here is one page from the Valvoline/Zerex data sheet about corrosion:

    Chloride Silicon Specific gravity, 60/60° F Freezing point, 50% V/V Boiling point, undiluted Boiling point, 50% V/V Effect on engine or vehicle finish Ash content, mass % pH, 50% V/V Reserve alkalinity*, mls Water, wt % Color Effect on nonmetals Storage stability Foaming Cavitation-erosion, rating 25 PPM, max. 252 – 308 ppm 1.110 - 1.145 -34°F/-36°C 325°F/162°C 226°F/107°C No Effect 5 max. 7.5 - 11.0 10 min. 5 max. Distinctive No adverse effect - 150 ml vol., max. 5 sec. break, max. 8 min. <25 290 ppm 1.1375 -34°F/-36°C 330°F/164°C 226°F/107°C No Effect <2 8.0 17.9 1.93 Yellow No adverse effect 3 years 35 ml 2.1 sec. 9 D3634 - D1122 D1177 D1120 D1120 - D1119 D1287 D1121 D1123 - - - D1881 D1881 D2809 *Reserve alkalinity (RA) is a term used to indicate the amount of alkaline inhibitors present in an antifreeze formulation. It is incorrect to relate a high RA with a high-quality antifreeze. Present state-of-the-art antifreeze formulations contain many new inhibitors which give added protection to certain metals but do not raise the RA number. Typical ASTM Corrosion Test Results Weight Loss Mg/Specimen Glassware Corrosion Test Spec. Actual ASTM Method Copper Solder Brass Steel Cast iron Aluminum 10 30 10 10 10 30 0 0 1 -3 1 -2 D1384 Simulated Service Test Copper Solder Brass Steel Cast iron Aluminum 20 60 20 20 20 60 2 2 1 -1 -1 -2 D2570 Hot Surface Corrosion mg/cm 2/wk Specimen weight loss 1.0 0.15 D4340

    It did not reproduce in an easy to read chart form. What this chart and testing amounts to is that the corrosion is miniscule according to the ASTM tests established for coolants and antifreeze. Evans figures are not published, usually a bad sign.

    In addition. Evans carries only 66 percent of the heat capacity of water and about 80 percent of the capacity of a 50/50 mix of regular antifreeze. Evans is 10 times thicker than water and therefore increases load on the engine and moving parts. The only benefit over regular antifreeze is that Evans does reduce pressures in overheated systems. This is the only benefit I can see.

    Evans is not used in racing engines. It is not recommended by any automotive manufacturer.

    I will not use this product.

    aehaas
     
  10. racerboy9

    racerboy9 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 3, 2003
    2,107
    I still haven't hit hot weather since changing to Evans so my test goes on and I will report anything out of the ordinary that occurs. I am curious with a viscosity a little over 3x that of a 50/50 standard coolant mix, would this be more likely to cause water pump cavitation at high rpm or less likely?
     
  11. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
    Consultant Owner

    May 5, 2001
    7,002
    Groton, MA
    Full Name:
    Verell Boaen
    Search the old FChat Tech Q&A Archives. a few of the member were fairly big on running Evans coolant. Might see if you can contact them & see what they think of it a couple of years later.

    As I recall it's basicly Propylene Glycol with some modifiers.

    I suspect that in moderate climates & normal driving it will work OK. It's zero operating pressure is a plus for ageing hoses & gaskets.

    I have reservations about driving it in high temps and/or at high engine power outputs. (ie: hot track driving).

    It's high viscosity & low heat capacity make me tend to agree with AEHaas.

    I doubt that it gives significantly better protection than using a standard name brand coolant & distilled water, & changeing them every other year, or every year.

    I'm actually using a propylene glycol based coolant w/50% distilled water because it's somewhat less toxic than conventional ethylene glycol.

    I'm suspicious as to whether Evans coolant would give me anything that eliminating the 50% water dilution wouldn't give me for about $8/gallon.
     
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  13. AEHaas

    AEHaas Formula 3

    May 9, 2003
    1,372
    Osprey, Florida
    Full Name:
    Ali E. Haas
    I just got off the phone with a tech from Valvoline. They are perhaps the largest supplier of antifreeze OEM and secondary market products, including Zerex brands.

    They do not make Propylene Glycol based antifreeze because no manufacturer calls for it. It is still a toxic product but less so than ethylene glycol.

    It does not have the heat capacity for automotive applications. It may be as corrosive as any other product (more so in my opinion). It is somewhat useful when mixed with water to increase its heat capacity.

    The only product recommended by all manufacturers is ethylene glycol based with a certain percentage of water. Follow the instructions on the label.

    aehaas
     
  14. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

    Sep 4, 2001
    12,887
    Cumming, Georgia
    Full Name:
    Franklin E. Parker
    If you will use the proper coolant/distilled water mixture AND power flush your system out at least every two years, you will have no rust.
     
  15. william Heung

    william Heung Rookie

    Dec 4, 2003
    21
    THe Header tanks get rusty mostly because it's not bath in coolant mixture. half the tank in most case is not full. This is more so for Garage queen. I don't know if it's the right thing to do but I usually add half a cup of silicon oil into my coolant mixture. I have it in the Jaguar XJSC and the 348. So far there has been no problem with rubber hoses, water pump or metal corrosion. One time I have a mechanic work on the engine and he had to pull a radiator hose. When he found trace of oil (Silicon) in the cooling system he immediately suspect leaking head gasket. So far the header tanks has no rust on both the car.
     

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