How to shift gear smoothly in 360? | FerrariChat

How to shift gear smoothly in 360?

Discussion in '360/430' started by Tomf-1, May 23, 2004.

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  1. Tomf-1

    Tomf-1 F1 Rookie

    Jan 17, 2004
    4,528
    Leawood KS/ South FL
    Full Name:
    Thomas
    It seems when I shift from 1st to 2nd and 3rd gear in my newly acquired 360, there is a bit of a split second lag before she lurges forward and accelerates...My questions for all the 360 owners/drivers are:

    1- What RPM do you run your 360 to prior to shifting gear?
    2- Those familiar w/ its transmission, any advice in shifting gear on the 360?

    I'm not exactly the world greatest manual driver either..lol. Otherwise, she runs and shifts like a dream....Thanks.
     
  2. Izza

    Izza Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,046
    London
    1, Depends on traffic but 6500 if looking for smoothness
    2. Pull the paddle.
     
  3. Izza

    Izza Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,046
    London
    Jokes apart, look to feather the throttle so as you begin to take the foot off the clutch the engine is already revving to approximate level it needs to be at.
     
  4. racerdj

    racerdj F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jan 19, 2003
    6,952
    Indianapolis
    Full Name:
    DJS
    I shift usually at 3-4.5k RPM's. The drive by wire (accelerator) is the most sensitive I've ever driven. I only let up probably 1/2" as that's all that is needed to match the RPM's for the next higher gear. I've raced and driven a clutch for 30 years or more and it still took me 100 miles or so to become really smooth. It just takes practice and boy is the practice fun.
     
  5. Gary(SF)

    Gary(SF) F1 Rookie

    Oct 13, 2003
    3,637
    Los Altos Hills, CA
    Full Name:
    Gary B.
    Is this a 3-pedal car or an F1? From your username I thought F1 but others in this thread obviously think it is conventional 6-spd.

    Gary
     
  6. Tomf-1

    Tomf-1 F1 Rookie

    Jan 17, 2004
    4,528
    Leawood KS/ South FL
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    Thomas
    She is 6 speeds....
     
  7. Tomf-1

    Tomf-1 F1 Rookie

    Jan 17, 2004
    4,528
    Leawood KS/ South FL
    Full Name:
    Thomas
    Is it ever....I am finding that out....It's good to know it's not just my 360. Thanks for yours and other advices so far.

    Tom
     
  8. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 17, 2002
    3,615
    Dallas, TX, USA
    Tom,

    First, you have a car with a lot of power and a fast-revving engine... don't feel too bad. Your right foot may need to learn a level of touch it hasn't needed before.

    Second, find a deserted parking lot to experiment with your new baby and become one with it. (I mean that seriously, even if it sounds corny.)

    I recommend you slow down your clutch release a bit and watch the tach as you release... feel how the car reacts. Once you learn to feel that such that you can anticipate the behavior of the car (the lurching), you'll be in much better position to prevent it. Play with the throttle as you do that a number of times... *feel* it, don't focus on the numbers.

    When you get a feel for it, then work on a "rhythm". A rhythm is the speed you execute the shift coupled with the way you manipulate the throttle during a shift. Find a rhythm that is comfortable to you... and results in the engine being at the right RPM as you release. Again, don't focus on the precise RPMs... when driving in traffic you can't be looking at that. Rather, simply find a rhythm that works smoothly... and then feel how that rhythm must change at higher RPMs vs. lower RPMs. Once you have that rhythm, you'll be able to apply it without looking or even thinking.

    Hope that helps,
     
  9. ze_shark

    ze_shark Formula 3

    Jul 13, 2003
    1,274
    Switzerland (NW)
    My 2cts: the lower the inertia of the engine, the faster your shift must be to prevent the revs from falling too low when you release the clutch, otherwise you need to match revs with the throttle: too much and you slip your clutch, too little and it's not smooth.
    Wait for the oil to be warm, then try to be decisive with the stick, you may experience smoother shifts if they are faster.
     
  10. 456mgt

    456mgt Formula Junior

    Mar 24, 2002
    628
    Cambridge UK
    Full Name:
    Kevin
    Ditto. You have to match the revs, so don't come off the gas when you shift, just relax the pressure a bit. It's generally easier to do this when you shift at lower rpms, say 2-3K. The revs die away really quickly with this throttle, so it's harder to master than most manual cars. It does bug you, and practice is the only way through.

    Where it all makes sense is when you're banging through the gears, shifting at 8K; you don't have to do any of the above then, and it just flows like a dream.
     
  11. Tomf-1

    Tomf-1 F1 Rookie

    Jan 17, 2004
    4,528
    Leawood KS/ South FL
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    Thomas
    thank you, gents for all the helpful advices.....
     
  12. racerdj

    racerdj F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jan 19, 2003
    6,952
    Indianapolis
    Full Name:
    DJS
    One additional comment I would make is that the RPM rise and fall so very fast that again it will take a little time to learn smoothness. The clutch engaging speed mentioned before this post is a very good comment also.
     
  13. 720

    720 F1 Rookie

    Jul 14, 2003
    2,623
    So. Cal and No. Utah
    Full Name:
    Rick
    i have owned several 360 modenas and two of them had a bit of a "lag" as you described. the other didn't. there is an adjustment that can easily be made by ferrari (i know you don't have a dealer near you, but...) called PIS (point of initial slippage). on the oldest 360s they have to adjust the PIS with a wrench, but 2000 and newer models (i think) they simply change a parameter by plugging the car into their computer. if the PIS is not set "optimally" then you feel a noticeable "lag" when aggressively upshifting and/or downshifting. but if you've never driven a 360 F1 with the PIS set properly you don't have a reference so you think this is the way an F1 shifts. the ferrari technicians at the dealership are well aware of the PIS adjustment. some people like the PIS set moderately because the shifts seem smoother. but to me "smoother" feels like a delay and i want everything set very aggressively. i may be misunderstanding the situation you have described. regardless now that you know about the PIS adjustment you can at least discuss it with a ferrari technician to see if he thinks this adjustment will address the issues you have described. btw, another symptom of the PIS not being set too "moderately" is when you start out in 1st gear it feels like the clutch is being released too slowly (slipping more than you'd like). hope this helps :)
     
  14. Tomf-1

    Tomf-1 F1 Rookie

    Jan 17, 2004
    4,528
    Leawood KS/ South FL
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    Thomas
    Rick--This is very helpful, guy. I will have our local F-tech check it out.
     
  15. Gary(SF)

    Gary(SF) F1 Rookie

    Oct 13, 2003
    3,637
    Los Altos Hills, CA
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    Gary B.
    Yeah, but this is a 3-pedal car...

    Gary
     
  16. Tomf-1

    Tomf-1 F1 Rookie

    Jan 17, 2004
    4,528
    Leawood KS/ South FL
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    Thomas
    Hi Gary--- I am a bit confused...so manual 360 "doesn't" have PIS?
     
  17. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 17, 2002
    3,615
    Dallas, TX, USA
    No, PIS is an F1 concept... its like your left foot learning where in the clutch pedal throw the clutch starts to engage... knowing where that is makes you a smoother shifter... same for the F1.
     
  18. 720

    720 F1 Rookie

    Jul 14, 2003
    2,623
    So. Cal and No. Utah
    Full Name:
    Rick
    sorry for the confusion. my mistake. i thought your 360 had an F1 gearbox. the PIS i talked about is something that can easily be "tweaked" on cars with the F1 gearbox.
     
  19. 4i2fly

    4i2fly Formula 3

    Apr 16, 2004
    1,333
    SF, Bay Area
    When I am not driving aggressively, I blip the throttle on upshifts just like when I downshift and it works well. And I like the sound of it. And, when I drive aggressively, upshifts happen so fast the RPMs are still there to keep gear change smooth. But this took me some time and as some already suggested practice makes best. Happy motoring.
     
  20. Tomf-1

    Tomf-1 F1 Rookie

    Jan 17, 2004
    4,528
    Leawood KS/ South FL
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    Thomas
    No prob. at all.
    Your help and others are greatly appreciated.

    Tom,
     
  21. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
    BANNED

    Jul 22, 2003
    8,520
    Melbourne
    Full Name:
    Phil Hughes
    The throttles are very sensitive to the pedal application. I personally don't like the feel, but you can drive around it with practice.

    Throttle response seems to vary a lot among cars. The air flow meters are slightly troublesome, and these have a huge effect on the way the engine blips and throttles feel.

    To do a test, you can simply swap them with another car. it takes only minutes and no special equipment is needed.

    New air flow meters are quite pricy though, so unless you find an obvious big difference on your test, just leave things as is.
     

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