Hybrids--Where is Ferrari?

it wont run out in your life time. It will just get very expensive to bring to
market. But guess what!!! Ferraris are for rich ppl, so no worrys m8.

 

What proof do you have that hybrid-powered or electric-powered cars "save energy"? -- they don't.

Sorry to be harsh, but you're just repeating (false) propaganda. In my town, the BS is so thick that people actually think paying more $ for wind-generated electrical power somehow "saves energy" as does burning fossil fuels to raise enough money to recycle near-worthless materials -- completely nutty!

 

I agree that the oil reserves won't suddently "run out." Gasoline will continue to trend up in price in the centuries to come. Eventually, only the most exotic of machines will be gas powered, and Ferrari will likely be one of them. But also keep in mind that Ferrari changed from time honored Italian Weber carburators to fuel injection well behind other auto makers. I think Porsche switched to FI 20 years before Ferrari with their 911! So even Ferrari is capable of change in response to technology, market forces, etc.

 

A Hybrid Ferrari is where I GET OFF! No way can an electric motor be considered exotic, It'll simply be another appliance like most cars are today. The sound of the Ferrari is at least 50% of the attraction, and that would destroy the whole mystique. Hope I'm not around to see it.

 

You guys live in the stone age and should be relegated to the tar pits... even Matthew Simmons, advisor to President Bush’s election campaign and Vice President Dick Cheney’s infamous energy task force is saying oil production is in soon to be in decline.

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/P87339.asp?GT1=4244
http://www.thinking-east.net/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=111&Itemid=56

As far as future high performance hybrids go Ferrari will be left in the dust. The future of performance cars is certainly heading in that direction.
http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/future/volta.html

0-60 in 4 sec, 408-hp Hybrid Synergy Drive, and 31mpg (435 miles on a 13.7-gallon tank)

http://www.seriouswheels.com/top-2004-Toyota-Alessandro-Volta-Concept.htm
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Hybrids = political tree hugger madness. There is oil in the earth that has yet to be harvested.

This post is near blasphomey...I don't know where to begin.

 

You guys do understand that Hybrid cars are not the solution to energy problems?

Hybrid cars simply tranfer the production of energy from the car itself to energy stations that run on fossil fuel too. So instead of powering the cars with 100% internal combustion engines you power the car (to some extent) with energy produced by nuclear or other power stations.

Beyond that... Toyota and Honda have had terrible reliability issues with all their current hybrid models and prototype hybrids.

Ferrari don't need a marketing gimick to show the world that they are an environment friendly company by producing hybrid prototypes. When the time comes to develop such cars Ferrari will be way infront of the competition, as usual!

WarrenF355: There will be no shortage of fuel in your life time or your grand son's life time.

 

Warren go move to Vermont , they'll love you up there. But even the tree huggers up there cut them down for winter fuel. You'll never see the gas supply dry up in your lifetime and as for hybirds they are all a POS. Besides the show models will never be produced so the pretty concept cars are just teasers. I like to drive slow in 2nd or 3rg just to enjoy the exhaust so I'll burn maybe 15 gals on the weekend just with the Fcar. Love the noise so enjoy the ride.

 

Indy Cars run on methanol & I wouldnt mind having 1 of those engines in my Ferrari

 

solar powered?

nuclear powered?

turbine powered? :-D that'd be so awesome... the turbine could charge the battery that is used to run the turbine, possible?

 

Yeah, and just like all over-hyped prototype cars, when the REAL car actually makes it to the showroom, it will look like a box turtle on wheels. And the girl standing beside it will be named
Hilda Frumpmaster, Queen of the Econoboxes. And as with all Japanese cars, the resale value won't buy you a tank full of gas by then. Haul it to the scrap yard and melt it down into cat food cans.

 

I'm going out on a limb to assume you're a non-believer?! LOL.

Dane

 

This is a great post - it really brings out some "interesting" oppinions

Personally, I can see 2 directions for vehicles.... methanol or biodiesel for larger and faster vehicles, and some form of electric power for urban transit vehicles for the masses. It will become pay to play, but that's fine by me.

The true reserves of dino-oil are not well understood, but one thing is for sure - the cost of getting it will go up until it becomes more cost effective to go to some alternate form of fuel. Eventually the market will turn it into a boutique fuel for collectors to power their F cars and other toys with.

Another consideration is the effect of pollution on the world, and the response of governments to this. Here in California, I am sure there are many people who want to ban all dino-oil based fuels now. Enter bio-diesel and methanol - carbon-neutral fuels that are in fact better than gasoline for the most part, regardless of origin. What will Ferrari do when they lose their biggest market? Adapt or perish.... I am sure they will adapt.

Finally, regarding the comments on the reliability of current hybrids.... Obviously the people making these comments do not drive Ferraris! One only needs to read the technical forums on this site to get an insight into how unreliable Ferraris are.

.02 please..... Dave

 

Just had to jump in on this one. While I cannot comment with first hand knowledge as to the future of hybrids, I must take issue with the comment that the Toyota hybrid (I am assuming that the Prius is what was being referred to) has been unreliable.

My fun car is my '99 F355 F1 but my daily driver is a'04 Prius. It has been absolutely reliable and in it's own way, fun to drive. Just as I quiz other Ferrari owners I meet, I also quiz other Prius owners. No one, so far, has said anything but good things about the Prius and it's reliability.

 

is that in fact so?

i know a number of folks with honda hybrids who've had zero problems.

furthermore, i thought the hondas came with 10 year warranties on all the electric motor related stuff - that's a tough wager to place if the stuff is garbage, isn't it?

doody.

 

You guys who are saying there will not be a shortage and don't worry are in totally in the dark. You can read so many studies (even industry backed)that can chart the supply(dwindling) and demand (rising). I agree with Lusso, there will be more and more biodiesel cars and other variations in our future. You can count on the world being a very different place in 25 or 30 years and while we obviously can't know where we are headed, wherever it is, it will be without the abundant and cheap fossil fuels we have available today. As pointed out, what supplies remain will be hugely expensive. In fact I predict we will see $10 a gallon gas before the end of the decade and prices could be much higher. My 02 cents worth.
And by the way, I am proud to be an environmental activist and will hug a tree without shame any day.
In fact, my flame suit is made from tree bark!

 

Hybrids get their energy from braking. I do not use the brakes much. I have torque for braking.

12 cylinders or take public transportation.

 

and

I'll counter with "Fuel injection ruined the sound of the Ferrari engine, any Ferrari with FI is junk and not worthy of the name."
Were Ferrari clubs having this discussion in the 80s, too?

BTW, just a couple of pieces of misinformation to be corrected, hybrids don't take their energy from the electric grid, nor do they get the majority of their energy from braking, it all comes from using the engine to charge the batteries in addition to providing propulsion.
Oh, and... just last week ANOTHER study came out that shows that more fossil fuels are used in the production of Ethanol than are returned to the energy balance. Ethanol only benefits ADM.

 

I've never said that we probably aren't going to run out of fossil fuels (IMO the only problem is too many people and the only solution is far fewer people) -- it's just that wasting even more fossil fuel to subsidize unpractical solutions is completely nutty (unless, of course, you're getting a paycheck from it -- which most rabid supporters are!)

 

Officials eye Toyota Prius stalling
Regulators plan to conduct investigation over engine stalling.
June 1, 2005; Posted: 1:18 p.m. EDT (1718 GMT)

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - After a string of consumer complaints over engine problems,Toyota's popular hybrid vehicle, the Prius, will face an investigation, the government announced Wednesday.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, which has received 33 complaints on both the 2004 and 2005 models, said it will evaluate the problem which could affect approximately 75,000 Prius vehicles.

According to the agency, over 85 percent of Prius owners who reported problems said that the vehicle stalled without warning between speeds of 35 and 65 miles per hour.

Some reports noted that the Prius, which utilizes a gas-electric hybrid powertrain to improve the vehicle's fuel efficiency, continued to operate in electric mode after the vehicle stalled. At least 50 percent of those complaints said that after the vehicle stalled it could not be restarted.

The Prius, which has become wildly popular and boasts higher resale values than its sticker price in some regions, bears a fuel efficiency rating of 60 miles per gallon in the city and 51 miles per gallon on the highway according to 2005 EPA estimates.

=============================

Prius hybrids dogged by software
Report: Autos to stall or shut down at highway speeds.
May 16, 2005; Posted: 1:17 p.m. EDT (1717 GMT)

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - A software problem is causing some Toyota Prius gas-electric hybrid cars to stall or shut down while driving at highway speeds, according to a published report.

The Wall Street Journal reports that the problem involves Priuses from the 2004 model year and some early 2005 models.

The newspaper reports the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has logged 13 reports of the engine shutdowns, while Edmunds.com, a popular vehicle-information and shopping site, has had 13 individuals post complaints in a Prius forum. Some of the cars that shut down had to be towed to the shop before they could be restarted.

The newspaper quotes an official from Toyota as saying the stalling problem is due to a software glitch in its sophisticated computer system.

The car has both a gasoline engine and an electric motor, which is set to provide it with power during certain driving conditions, particularly in city driving. The gasoline engine is supposed to be shut down or run at a very low level when the car is driving slowly or idling but provide most of the car's power when it is cruising at highway speeds.

The report said no injuries or fatalities have been linked to the problem, but it did not say whether there had been accidents due to the problem.

A NHTSA spokesman said the agency is monitoring the complaints, but no formal investigation has been initiated.

Toyota spokesman Sam Butto told the newspaper the auto manufacturer identified a "programming error" in the computer systems of 23,900 Prius cars last year and sent owners a service notice advising them to bring the cars into dealers for an hour-long software upgrade.

He couldn't say how many Prius owners got the upgrade and whether the latest problems involve buyers who never got the upgrade or if an altogether different glitch is shutting the car down.

===================================

 

I saw a Toyota Prius that did NOT stall a few weeks ago. One Saturday evening about 3 weeks ago, a Toyota Prius was driving down a main street near where I live. A drunken guy, who had been walking down the side of the highway, took the wrong zig instead of zagging and stepped right in front of a Toyota Prius going about 40 mph. Driver hit the drunk dead center of the hood. "Dead" is the appropriate word. The drunk was flipped clean over the car and landed in the middle of the lane. Needless to say, a large crowd of onlookers, cops, firemen, paramedics, and coroner's wagon personel were gathered at the scene for nearly 2 hours. The only reason I know that it was a Toyota Prius was because a couple of guys standing in the crowd mentioned that they worked for a Toyota dealer and they helped the wrecker driver load the Prius onto a flatbed. The poor Prius driver was not to blame, but it no doubt ruined his day having a drunk walk in front of his car a 40 mph.

 

In case you (mainly those who are saying the fuel supply will completely dry up) havent noticed, car companies are making leaps and bounds in terms of gasoline fuel economy. Even the F430 is nearing, or even at, 20mpg. That is a car with nearly 500 hp. As of now, we are merely scratching the surface of efficiency in terms of creating the most power/ fuel economy out of gasoline cars. Within 5 years i expect a large number of GAS powered vehicles to be nearing 50mpg. Think of it this way, in the 80's 15mpg was considered pretty good. SUVs today avg. more than that (my 2004 tahoe gets about 17 and my 2005 HEMI durango gets about 15). I believe Ferrari will ride this wave as long as they can, then possibly move to diesel powered vehicles. Massive torque, good gas milage, minimal R&D.