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Hydrogen powered Ferrari ?

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by WILLIAM H, Dec 18, 2007.

  1. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
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    I was reading in Pop Mechanics about hopw BMW built a V12 internal combustion gas engine and made it flew fuel so it burns either gas or Hydrogen. They had to modify the engine for higher heat by modding the pistons and adding more cooling and lubrication but apart from that the car ran very close to a gas powered car.

    The biggest difference was of course the fuel tank, The H tank was heavily insulated & has to be cooled to - 400 F and if you leave the car alone for a few weeks the H will evaporate out & leave you w an empty tank

    Sounds better than the super high tech Hydrogen- Electric models

    I see no reason F cant build a V12 to run on H :)
     
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  3. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    On a similar theme has anyone had their F-Car LPG converted?

    Its very popular over here in the UK on other marques such as big 4x4's and even v12 Mercs such as the CL600. Fuel tax has become unbearable in UK as it is nearly $2.50 per liter (@ 4.4 liters per gallon your looking at $11.00 per gallon in UK for fuel... makes me want to cry).

    With LPG being 50% less it makes sense, especially on V12's which like to drink some. Only problem is it costs around $2,500 to convert a car...
     
  4. skeletor123

    skeletor123 Karting

    Nov 24, 2007
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    On the news today i heard that by 2020 all cars must have at least 35 miles per gallon in the United States. It suks.
     
  5. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

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    All NEW cars.
     
  6. Jimi900

    Jimi900 Formula Junior

    Jul 8, 2004
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    The government should not be able to set the standards for the car company. Its really not any of their business.
     
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  8. S Brake

    S Brake F1 World Champ

    Aug 3, 2006
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    I know that there are many sides to this situation but I'm in favor of the government raising the CAFE standards to 35 MPG. It will help to drive innovation and I won't have to fight with Rams and Silverados that take up two parking spots.
     
  9. 348_Spiderman

    348_Spiderman Formula 3

    Feb 16, 2004
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    Isn't it based on averages? (35 MPG Average accross all vehicles produced?) So if you have a vehicle that only gets 10mpg, you need to make one that gets 60 mpg to still average 35mpg?

    If that is the case, Ferrari just needs to start making mopeds. :)
     
  10. Superior Shine

    Superior Shine Karting

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  11. Pantera

    Pantera F1 Rookie

    Nov 6, 2004
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    Ill believe that when I see it.

    Don't think they would be Hydrogen powered I could see Biodesiel as a possiblitly first before anything else.
     
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  13. Bryan

    Bryan Formula 3

    BMW has been running test fleets of H2 powered 7-series all over the world, including the US.
    http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2001/01/08/012373.html

    The BMW runs directly on hydrogen, so it can only re-fuel at stations with H2.

    The other approach is to use the existing distribution system and convert the gasoline to hydrogen with on-board re-forming. This is what oil industry supports, but it's not without it's warts as well.
     
  14. Superior Shine

    Superior Shine Karting

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    My client told me that when the hydrogen gets low they need to call it in and a truck shows up sometime later and fills their vehicle with hydrogen. They also said it was kind of a pain in the arse to do when you needed it.
     
  15. LouB

    LouB Formula 3

    Apr 15, 2001
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    The leakage issue could be real deal buster but don't forget what they don't like to mention is the fact of a 5000-10000 psi tank of Hydrogen under the baby seat.
     
  16. DavidDriver

    DavidDriver F1 Rookie
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    May 9, 2006
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    United Nuclear has a solution to the storage problem for hydrogen.

    You put the hydrogen into tanks filled with metal-hydride, similar in principle to the way acetylene is dissolved in acetone for storage in a tank. The hydrogen is chemically bonded to the hydride and then released as gas when the hydride warmed up. United Nuclear's system uses the warmed-up coolant from the engine to achieve this. Therefore, the car must still rely on gas, methanol or some other fuel until the car is warmed-up sufficiently for the system to extract the hydrogen from the tanks.

    They have successfully made a system for a Corvette that they take to car shows. They are also working to develop a system for the Mitsubishi Endeavor. You can see all of this on their website by clicking on the link above.

    The bottom line is: You can store more hydrogen bonded to hydride in a tank than you can store as compressed gas in the same tank. And it's very safe. They say you could shoot the tank with an incendiary bullet, and the tank would only smolder. No explosion. Very safe.

    At some point, I would like to convert my GT4 to run on a system like this.

    The first Ferrari to do this (IMHO) will be a media sensation. ;)

    Gas or hydrogen; Take your pick and still use the Carpool lane? It almost sounds too good to be true... :D
     
  17. LouB

    LouB Formula 3

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    I thought the energy density of a metal hydride system was way below compressed hydogen? Am I wrong?
     
  18. DMOORE

    DMOORE Formula 3

    Aug 23, 2005
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    Great, so then you would have to worry about 2 completely different fuel systems in the car.Plus filling them both on a regular basis. I can just imagine the maintaince nightmares already. I love carbs more and more. LOL.



    Darrell.
     
  19. DavidDriver

    DavidDriver F1 Rookie
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    The system I've seen using compressed hydrogen only goes a very short distance before it needs to be refilled. And that's the hydrogen Cobra with the bomb filling up the trunk.

    If you look at the United Nuclear website, it says with 2-extra tanks, the system has a range of 650+ miles in the Corvette.

    The combined mpg of a 1994 Corvette is 18mpg. So the 4 H2 tanks are the equivalent of 36 gallons of gasoline, or approx. 2-tanks of gas.

    Maybe you can find a way to put more hydrogen into a tank of similar size if you can get it cold enough. But I think the additional equipment you’d need to keep in a state that would reduce it to that size would be impractical for the vehicle trying to propel it down the freeway.

    And what would be the point anyway? Isn’t this system good enough as it is?
     
  20. DavidDriver

    DavidDriver F1 Rookie
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    Acutally, with this system you can use gas only if you want. H2 is an added option.
     
  21. LouB

    LouB Formula 3

    Apr 15, 2001
    1,811
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    Check out this Dept of Energy Site. www.hydrogen.energy.gov/pdfs/review04/st_1_miliken.pd. It shows the volumetric and mass density comparisons of different H2 storage systems compared to gasoline. H2 doesn't look good at all for any reasonable storage system size and range. Practical H2 storage for a 300 mile range car needs a technological breakthrough. It may happen but I think far far in the future.

    Be careful of supplier web sites. They are all selling something.
     
  22. UpNorth

    UpNorth Formula 3
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    Sep 30, 2006
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    Quesion from someone with no knowledge on this issue.
    Any hint how, if ever, the sound my Tubi would be altered if I had to switch to LNG or H or any other source of energy for my 328?
     

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