Hyper-Technical: 348 Performance Chip Programming Review

Discussion in '348/355' started by No Doubt, May 16, 2007.

  1. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
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  2. vvassallo

    vvassallo F1 Veteran
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    ND, can you tell just what the aftermarket chip is supposed to be doing? It looks from your post that it only generates income to the vendor and nothing in results to the buyer. Assuming you do not disclose the ID of the vendor, can you tell us what they claim their chip is supposed to be doing? There are only 2 aftermarket chip providers I have found still selling products for our cars along with 2 others selling ?

    Powerchip, not legal in CA, sold by Nick Forza;
    Does Koenig count since they replace the ECUs?;
    Razzo Rosso, legal in CA, sold by Caribou;
    Mod Chip - not really a chip at all, but some weird piggyback device.

    I'm thinking it would be a whole lot easier to just clone plugzit's, run some flow tests and tweak it. What do you think?
     
  3. No Doubt

    No Doubt Five Time F1 World Champ
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    I do *not* know what the aftermarket chip is accomplishing in a positive way by their code changes.

    To be fair, the aftermarket chip does also change a few of the fuel data map tables, but even there they make changes to the Ferrari T1 table but not to the Ferrari T2 and T3 tables.

    Ferrari "sums" up at least 3 tables to determine how much fuel to inject: t1 + t2 + t3 = fuel amount (well, more specifically the length of time to hold open the fuel injectors).


    As for aftermarket 348 chip brands, there are *several* additional chips besides the ones that you named.


    Now, there is no need to clone Plugzit's chips. I can easily make more specific chips for your aps. Buy a wideband O2 monitor like Innovate's LC1 so that you can record your fuel/air ratio, then tell me at what rpms you want more or less fuel, and by what percent.

    I can say that I know enough to at least avoid modifying Ferrari programming code while changing the data in the fuel tables!
     
  4. jm3

    jm3 F1 Rookie

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    #29 jm3, May 17, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Can you please tell me, privately if you wish, what program you are using to generate those maps? I have the Batronix reader/ burner, but all I can see there is Hex, which makes my brain spin, plus I can't drink alcohol when I am trying to learn hexadecimal, so that settles that.

    I have downloaded several free ones, including the ones all the Porsche guys use, to no avail.

    The car is a 95 F355, specifically chosen for the dual MAF, and with special cats with an Innovate LM1 hooked up. So I'm ready to go....

    Enclosed is a photo I made about 3 years ago trying to convince JimC to start selling his BMW software tools again. It is a reconstructed scene of me trying to teach myself Hex.

    Jay M
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  5. No Doubt

    No Doubt Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Ha!

    OK, the Batronix scanner *is* the first step. Then you pull your chip from your ECU and scan it. That gives you a f35527.bin file.

    Next, I use the Motronic 911 program to graph fuel and ignition tables that reside in the above-mentioned .bin file: http://www.mskar.org/dme_download.html

    There are, however, some tricks to get the Motronic 911 program to work on our Ferrari .bin's (different format/structure than the Porsche binaries).

    So, you have to have a Ferrari.spc file in the Motronic 911 directory.

    For the Ferrari 348, your .spc file is going to look a little like this:


    Now, note the two parts in bold above. The first in bold is the "primary offset." This is very important, and could very well be in a different place for your 2.7 355 than for my 2.7 348. You'll have to adjust your own 355.spc file accordingly.

    That's the memory address for the start of a series of two-byte pointers. Those pointer pairs hold the memory location for each fuel/air and ignition map (i.e. the really cool data to play with on the chip).

    The second part in bold is the offset (in this case, for a fuel table). Basically, this "offset" is how far down to go from the primary to get the two byte memory address of a desired table. In this case you'd go "CA" hex bytes, so in sum you are telling the Motronic 911 editor to go to the hex address 66CA for the desired fuel table ("primary" of 6600 + "offset" of CA = 66CA).

    Now, if you go into the Batronix editor with my Ferrari 348 Spider OEM chip's binary file loaded, you'll see that 66CA holds "76" in the first byte and "2C" in the second. 762C is the hex memory address for a fuel data map/table that is 3 dimensional, based on input from two axis (throttle load and engine rpms).

    Which is to say, that's the fuel map that Motronic 911 will graph for you with the above .spc file when you've loaded the OEM Ferrari 348 Spider's M2.7 binary.
     
  6. No Doubt

    No Doubt Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Part TWO:

    Now, in theory you can add two bytes at a time to the variable in the .spc file. In this manner you can graph every fuel/ignition data map table.

    So, per the theory, fuelmap_pt_pointer_offset=$CA could be bumped up by two (hex) to fuelmap_pt_pointer_offset=$CC to view the next sequential data map. ...and going up two more (hex) to fuelmap_pt_pointer_offset=$CE would view the third fuel/ignition map in the series, and so on...

    However, the fly in the ointment is that some data maps are 2D, others 3D. To deal with the correct dimensions we have to use the correct Motronic 911 variables.

    The fuel and ignition variables that contain "pt" will get the correct graphing routines for the 3D tables (2 inputs + 1 output), as above.

    For the 2D data maps, you'll need to use either the WOT or IDLE variables, such as: fuelmap_wot_pointer_offset=$A0

    Keep in mind that the Motronic 911 software doesn't really care about fuel or ignition. It's just reading in data from tables and graphing it (I would suggest to *not* use that software to edit chip images).






    pause



    ...on a slightly more advanced note, our Bosch M2.7 ecus use a combination of data maps to determine things like fuel output, so the Motronic 911 editor is only showing us one graph at a time, rather than the real picture of several data maps that are summed from those "one at a time" tables.
     
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  8. No Doubt

    No Doubt Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Hmmm...that rev limit offset location in post #30 is wrong...it should be something more like: $0674 .
     
  9. jm3

    jm3 F1 Rookie

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    I have the bin file for the 355 2.7, and I suspect it is different than the 348, not just in values but perhaps locations. I know the pinouts and the AFM are different.

    If you want the bin file let me know.

    Thanks for the offset info, and I will play with that this weekend.

    Jay
     
  10. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Wasn't it though.
     
  11. No Doubt

    No Doubt Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Please tell me the hex value in that bin at $0674. I'd like to know if that's a 355 rev limit area. Also, what's the factory claimed rev limit in RPMs for your year 355?
     
  12. jm3

    jm3 F1 Rookie

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    value at 0000674 ? I think it is "72"

    I have not gotten that Motronic editor to anything but lock up and require ctrl+alt+del to get out. I got that 72 number from "tunercat", so take it with a grain of salt.

    The claimed rev limit is, I believe 8500, but I have also seen 8900 claimed. the tach itself is merely a guideline, similar to the speedometer accuracy.

    I may just need to send you the bin and see if you can do it.

    I note that the Atlantis now claims support for the BMW 413, and I have lots of those files, so I'll see what kind of bug it is.

    Jay M
     
  13. No Doubt

    No Doubt Five Time F1 World Champ
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    No. Don't do any of that.

    Just pull up your Batronix editor. Load your 355.bin file.

    Scroll down until you see the 0674 address. Bote the byte there. Should start with a "B" like a "BD" value or "C" like a "CF" value.

    Won't take you 20 seconds to load and scroll and see the byte.
     
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  15. GCalo

    GCalo F1 Veteran

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    No Doubt I am impressed! Great work. I did not think folks in Alabama were that deep into code!

    So what value is it to purchase a chip if in fact it does little but to create change in the mind of the buyer? What a fraud!

    There has been an extensive thread in the 360 section about reprogrammed ECU's from $1,200-$5,000. No proof offered by any vendor!

    Amazing snake oil!
     
  16. No Doubt

    No Doubt Five Time F1 World Champ
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    #39 No Doubt, May 24, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  17. No Doubt

    No Doubt Five Time F1 World Champ
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    You can bump up your fuel (enriching) easily via the on-board fuel maps; ditto for leaning out your fuel.

    So if you have accurate air/fuel ratio measurements over an RPM range for a Wide Open Throttle (WOT) run, then you can change the factory fuel maps (i.e. you care more about performance than the factory cares about emissions and warranty claims) to give you added power.

    You can also do little things such as bump up the rev limiter.

    However, I'm wary of the aftermarket companies that are selling such mods. Yes, it can be done...but from what I've seen it hasn't always been done properly.
     
  18. jm3

    jm3 F1 Rookie

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    confirmed it is 72

    Boy that Tunercat interface sure would be cool if I could figure out how to offset the maps. It seems to be that you tell it what chip you have and it does the offset behind the scenes, but the screens are nice if you have a Chevy.

    JM
     
  19. No Doubt

    No Doubt Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Your 355 chip is going to be completely differently than the 348 chips, then. No way that hex "72" represents your 355's rev limit.
     
  20. GCalo

    GCalo F1 Veteran

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    SinghAutoHaus told me the single most noteable change about which their customers have commented was (1) an increase of fuel mileage (obviously optomizing for 91 octance here in Calif), and (2) an increase of low end torgue but unverified. This of course could be due to optomizing the fuel burn. However, $1,200.00 is a lot to pay for a small fuel mileage increase.

    With your incredible expertise and knowledge, why are you not offering chip upgrades? Seems it would be a piece of cake for you.
     
  21. No Doubt

    No Doubt Five Time F1 World Champ
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    I'm already doing the M2.5 and 2.7 upgrades (for free). I may dig into the ABS ecus next. If it's on a 348, then I'm interested.

    I'm also getting into drifting in a big way. If you want to come out to 'Bama for some serious automotive fun, you can do the Dale Jerrit Race School at Talladega, the Porsche Driving Experience at the Barber Track, and drifting in your own car or a track car at U-Drift.

    ...and yes, I drift my 348. These cars can handle it (and when it breaks, I fix it).

    Life is good.
     
  22. GCalo

    GCalo F1 Veteran

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    What about 360's?

    I did get your "drift" about your car hobby!

    Would love to see Alabama but could do w/o the track stuff.
     
  23. sspooner

    sspooner Karting

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    Wow, not seen any 8051 assembler in 15 years or more.
    There was a time I lived breathed ate and drank 8051's.
    Fabulous !
     
  24. No Doubt

    No Doubt Five Time F1 World Champ
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    360's are out of my league. Too much on-board, in-chip computer security, too little documentation.

    As for seeing Alabama without the track stuff, we've got woodlands, fishing, football, off-roading, racing, hiking, canooing, great spelunking/rockclimbing, civil war battlegorunds, etc.

    ...bit light on the big city party scene, though!

    I've got a buddy out in your neck of the woods who wants to hold seminars on how to make money in Cali, then retire to places like 'Bama (and Panama) in order to make your money go (a lot) further.
     
  25. lndshrk

    lndshrk Formula Junior
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    Send the bottle over and Jim C. might do it ;)

    Actually I am going to be re-releasing our Editor, but NOT for BMW OBD-I
    applications. It will be open to all others.

    I am completely happy to assist w/ Ferrari OBD-I chips.

    Jim
     
  26. No Doubt

    No Doubt Five Time F1 World Champ
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    ..and now it runs your 348 (via 80515 processors).
     
  27. lndshrk

    lndshrk Formula Junior
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    I have all the information on the F360, have already figured out the flash
    protocol and the checksums. As soon as I find/buy my (corporate R&D)
    F360, I'll start on software work.

    Jim
     

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