Hyper-Technical: 348 Performance Chip Programming Review

Discussion in '348/355' started by No Doubt, May 16, 2007.

  1. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    14,674
    socal
     
  2. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    14,674
    socal
    This can work if you are doing a drift park since it is off road only. There is a salvage 348 for 25K on craig's list about the cost of a gt4. I do have this euro mondial QV that is in storage. It runs, is dirty and interior is kinda dry but hey if you want a cheap running mondial cab to drift for the park. If you are interested in that let me know it can go cheap!

    If you do this conversion to cali cars check with smog police. They will not allow any aftermarket stuff even 4re of a different year even if is does pass the tailpipe test. You can do modern conversions to pre-74's cars. Have the laws changed? Or will the BAR referree pass a car with an aftermarket conversion? I know they will not if the ECU is programable. In the strictest sence of the word our ECU's are not user programable...except for this one case w/ 2.7 ecu's.

    The actual ecu may be the same as say a volvo ecu and thus be plentiful and cheap. Ernie has a who knows what ecu that probably has a burned eprom to ferrari specs. His ecu is not a ferrari bosch #. There are others doing the ND research into the ecu's.
     
  3. No Doubt

    No Doubt Five Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    May 21, 2005
    52,390
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways

    And just for reference, there are several shops such as Bosch and http://www.fuelinjectioncorp.com/ that claim to repair these ECUs for a lot less than what it takes to buy one used, much less NOS.

    But do the chip swap first before sending your ECUs out for repair or buying replacements, of course!
     
  4. No Doubt

    No Doubt Five Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    May 21, 2005
    52,390
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways

    You'll understand it. You and Bruce and Ernie always impress me and figure out ways to con dinner out of me (just kidding!).

    For starters, just download the Motronic 911 editor. It comes with actual Porsche .bin files and .SPC files so that you can pull up the fuel/air maps into a big, colorful graph for cars like the 911 C2.

    On the same screen as the colorful graph will be a table of numbers. Each number is a data point that corresponds to a point on the graph. Change the number and the graph changes.

    Save your changes and you are ready to burn a chip. Just takes a couple of mouse clicks and the BATRONIX software will read your newly saved .bin file and burn a chip for you.

    Insert new chip and you've just tuned your car.

    So download the Motronic editor and play around with the Porsche graphs.
     
  5. lusso64

    lusso64 Formula 3

    Apr 12, 2004
    1,535
    Simi Valley
    Full Name:
    David
    FBB - I am pretty sure that "no changes can be made." However most smog test places have zero idea on what a Ferrari engine should look like. If it all says Ferrari and actually runs clean, then you're three steps ahead of the game at least.

    I am not into drifting - at least not intentionally - but am always interested in playing with these sorts of things.

    Dave
     
  6. No Doubt

    No Doubt Five Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    May 21, 2005
    52,390
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways
    Here's a 348 Spider OEM spark advance table

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    6BAC[]: = f( Engine RPM ) *spark advance curve
    NOTE: the TPS chip bumps up each OEM value in this table +6 starting at 6BBE

    RPMS:800...920..1280..1520..1720..1840..2000..2520 ..3520..4000..4520..5000..5520..6000..6520..7240

    VALS: 21....22....25......28.....2A.....2D.....31.....36 ......3D.....3F.....42......42.....42....41......3 F....43
     
  7. Tired of seeing this ad? Upgrade now
  8. TheOnlyest

    TheOnlyest Formula 3

    Sep 25, 2007
    1,674
    Las Vegas Nevada, US
    Full Name:
    Steve
    ND, have you ever come up with a bullet-proof, complete program to improve performance with everything else totally stock, 91 octane fuel, and will still pass a smog test? I'm not concerned with raising the redline, but a snappier low-end and mid-range would be nice!!

    Also, these cars seem to dump out awfully quick after pushing in the clutch... all other manual cars ive ever owned/driven have a much slower and more gradual return to idle... it certainly would make shifts ALOT smoother!!

    I had a Buick Grand National ECU modified to correct that once, since I mated it to the 5 speed manual tranny in a Porsche 944S... there's no such thing as a manual shift Buick Grand National. You should have seen how instantly that motor went to idle when you pushed in the clutch, every shift felt like you dumped the clutch! A programmer guy fixed it by reprogramming my existing chip... the GN was 1986 ECU technology,
    so it should be able to be done with a Motronic 2.7!!
     
  9. 348SStb

    348SStb F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Apr 9, 2004
    2,854
    Long Island, NY
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Steve,

    This is the genius of Ferrari. Precisely because the RPMs fall so quickly, shifts can be done quickly and smoothly. The cars want to be shifted very quickly. The shift and clutch action are intended to be very quick. If the car is lollipopped into gear, the shift will havebeen missed, resulting in a clunk. The car is not meant to have the lollipop shift action as in, say, a BMW, Porsche, Audi, etc.

    I find that Ferraris are the only cars in the world that, when shifted properly, exhibit no clunk or jerk whatsoever.

    (Okay, maybe Lamborghinis as well :))
     
  10. No Doubt

    No Doubt Five Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    May 21, 2005
    52,390
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways
    Conflicting goals!

    To get extra HP, you want to advance your ignition timing. To help protect your motor from detonation as you advance the timing, you want to run richer. That's not typically a smog-friendly combination.



    In the big picture, there are just a few things that can be done to deliver extra HP:
    1. More air
    2. More fuel
    3. Wider valve cam timing
    4. Advance spark timing
    5. Reduce internal friction & power transfer losses
    6. Reduce internal weight
    7. Increase potency of fuel/air (e.g. nitrous, ice packs, octane, compression)

    But perhaps only #5 and #6 offer the chance to improve HP and emissions simultaneously.

    And without physical mods to the engine, chip changes are only going to be able to mildly tweak #1, 2, and 4.
     
  11. TheOnlyest

    TheOnlyest Formula 3

    Sep 25, 2007
    1,674
    Las Vegas Nevada, US
    Full Name:
    Steve
    Well, I would define my shifting as clunky! Granted, my shifting is MUCH better post-superlight shockproof, BUT it still takes considerable effort to move that shifter, and the delay it causes in shifting, and the resulting RPM drop to nearly idle, makes for a very clunky trip up to 5th!

    I hope someday that the Stooges buckle down and engineer/fabricate a better shifter mechanism for these cars! Its been a LONG time comin!!
     
  12. blackcross

    blackcross Karting

    Jun 23, 2007
    99
    Canada
    Why not heel and toe? Keeps the RPMs up

    Just a question.

    hagen
    348 ts ss #14
     
  13. 348SStb

    348SStb F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Apr 9, 2004
    2,854
    Long Island, NY
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Or, how about a simple throttle blip in neutral on the upshift?
     
  14. Tired of seeing this ad? Upgrade now
  15. TheOnlyest

    TheOnlyest Formula 3

    Sep 25, 2007
    1,674
    Las Vegas Nevada, US
    Full Name:
    Steve
    both good ideas...
    but both are hard habits to get into... programming your subconscious to make your foot do this on 1 of 4 stick-shift cars I drive is easier said than done! Hell, I have a hard enough time NOT putting it in reverse when I stop at a redlight! lol
     
  16. gandalfthegray.

    gandalfthegray. Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 18, 2006
    686
    Pinewood, MN
    Full Name:
    Steve
    Nd, I might be interested in some of these chips as well. However, unlike Steve, I have no test pipes and X-OST and no smog laws.

    What says you?
     
  17. vvassallo

    vvassallo F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 4, 2006
    8,061
    Palos Verdes
    Full Name:
    Vince V
    Don't let goth see this or he will already be working on a concept before I finish typing this. :p
     
  18. 348SStb

    348SStb F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Apr 9, 2004
    2,854
    Long Island, NY
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Steve,

    Today I had the opportunity of putting together a few videos, which I hope you and others will find interesting. I wonder if you are shifting your 348 with enough "aggression." I really don't think there should be much clunking going on. There is indeed a way to take advantage of the quick drop in RPMs exhibited by Ferraris.

    By the way, I think when you were referring to the "trip up to 5th" you actually meant the trip up to fourth?

    Anyway, as you can see in the videos the shifts are done very fast and with power -- especially the shift from 3rd to 4th. I love that one -- that shift is meant to be done as powerfully as possible. The instantaneous drop in RPM is more a boon than a burden in my opinion if the shifts are done quickly and aggressively. Clunks need not be present! You may also notice the double clutching on the downshifts. Oh and this is in my Mondial t coupe, which of course has a transmission identical to that of the 348.

    By the way, I'm the guy who filmed these... while I was driving!! :cool:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8SCrh6-zZw
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0PnQ_t1KQg
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPqCPyf_Z9s
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJNWKtGnobo
     
  19. 348SStb

    348SStb F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Apr 9, 2004
    2,854
    Long Island, NY
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Glad I took all that time to create the videos and post them.

    Jeez, I'm on a roll lately aren't I.
     
  20. dredder

    dredder Rookie

    Apr 6, 2008
    1

    Do you mind sharing your bin. You can email it to dredder007(at)yahoo.com Thanks in advance
     
  21. vvassallo

    vvassallo F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 4, 2006
    8,061
    Palos Verdes
    Full Name:
    Vince V
    Let me add somethings...

    1 and 2 are wide open to many alternatives, including 7. There are lots of ways of getting more air and fuel such as larger injectors, replacement or modded fuel pressure regulator, larger fuel lines and fittings, boring plenum and runners, boring TBs, modding your MAFs, or just plain redesigning the whole intake system with larger replacement pieces (plugz and group77). But the most obvious one not mentioned is opening up the exhaust system with larger and free flowing cats and mufflers. Naturally, this is what the Stooges are investigating for you. We hope to have a new exhaust installed this weekend along with dyno results. Heh, heh. If we can wait that long... ;)
     
  22. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 26, 2006
    10,244
    U.S.A.
    Full Name:
    goth
    This coming weekend :eek:??? I worked all last weekend to only fab the pretty tips and x-pipe muffler internals....... :eek: .............. no 355 drives, no girls, no food and no rest ......... :(
     
  23. eTiLiKo

    eTiLiKo Rookie

    Apr 7, 2009
    2
    Italy
    Full Name:
    Andrea
    #96 eTiLiKo, Apr 10, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi guys, I'm Andrea.
    In the next days I have to work on a M2.7 F355 engine management.
    I read the stock chip and compare it to a 348 M2.7 one, they are very similar!!!I attach the original F355 file (I hope that it is possible, if not I can delete the attachment).
    So, I'm studying the addresses and the maps and I have a question : how can I convert the RPM axis from decimal (I have already converted from hex to decimal) to RPM numbers?
    In the 348 from hex 3B - 0C - 03 -0A - 07 - 08 - 0F - 16 - 14 - 19 - 14 - 14 become 800 920 1280 1520 1720 1840 2000 2520 3520 4000 4520 5000 5520 6000 6520 7240 ? I'm a bit confused.

    No Doubt, had you the opportunity to read a F355 chip?
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  24. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    21,178
    The Brickyard
    Full Name:
    The Bad Guy
    Oooooo!

    Hey Shemp! See if you can find the rev limiter.
     
  25. eTiLiKo

    eTiLiKo Rookie

    Apr 7, 2009
    2
    Italy
    Full Name:
    Andrea
    I'll search it for sure, but I'm not a disassembly expert and I have only 2/3 days to complete the study of the maps.
     
  26. flyinlo

    flyinlo Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 30, 2005
    190
    San Jose, CA
    Full Name:
    Jeffrey Lo
    Have you tried the Hill Engineering Slick Shift gates? I had one on my 328 and just put one in the 355, and it makes a world of difference in shifting.
     
  27. powderbomber

    powderbomber Rookie

    Sep 5, 2009
    23
    hi guys, been reading this thread with interest, even though its a few years old hopefully people are still reading back over it...
    What Im trying to do is figure out whether the 348 GTC runs a different ECU mapping to the GTB/GTS/Spiders? We got an interestingly high HP readout on a dyno session recently and have been *trying* to get some info out of Ferrari Spa., but like all other 348GTC information we have been able to glean, it has been difficult, and often contradictory.
    Im not averse to downloading the ECU maps to compare to a stock 348 but as yet havent been able to find a 348 bin file to download, also havent scanned mine yet, or procured the gadgets and software to do so -but I know its running motronic 2.7 ecu's and has the higher rev limit (7800) than the TB/TS.
    Has anyone looked into this before? GTC's are rare beasts so Im thinking possibly not..
    cheers,
    Joe
     

Share This Page