Hyper-Technical: 348 Performance Chip Programming Review

Discussion in '348/355' started by No Doubt, May 16, 2007.

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  1. vvassallo

    vvassallo F1 Veteran
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    That engine is different. I believe it has a slightly higher compression ratio and a slightly higher rev limit.
     
  2. powderbomber

    powderbomber Rookie

    Sep 5, 2009
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    thanks mate, we definitely agree there - I know for sure it is different, but what Im trying to find out is exactly how and why its different!
    Ive got some information from other GTC owners and parts manuals showing different exhaust headers and other parts - and Ive heard rumours of either different ECU's or different maps so im trying to confirm whether that is correct or not. Ive looked up the bosch part numbers and found that the ECU's are motronic 2.7's so now Im hoping to concentrate on the maps - maybe dumping them to disk and comparing with a stock GTB/GTS if thats at all feasible.
    thanks again
     
  3. vvassallo

    vvassallo F1 Veteran
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    Considering the higher rev limit, the chips in the ECUs should be different than our Spider/Challenge/Serie Speciale versions. But I would think that's all. BTW, my SS rev limit is 7500 with fuel cut off at 7750, at least that is what I measured on the dyno. Thi sis supposedly 250 rpm greater than the other cars. Your compression ratio is 0.25:1 greater than ours. Also, your upper intake plenum is slightly taller.
     
  4. test3090

    test3090 Rookie

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    #104 test3090, May 10, 2012
    Last edited: May 10, 2012
    First of all I would like to thank you ALL for the great insight you provide. I have an 89 348 TS with Motronic 2.5. Would I be able to upgrade to 2.7 by simply swapping the chips? If so, can somebody please send me the BIN file from a 2.7 (or any pertinent info as to where to locate it)? Have searched around (google) but couldn't find anything. Thank you so much.
     
  5. 3forty8

    3forty8 F1 Rookie
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    Unfortunately, no, simply swapping chips will not upgrade the system. The way the throttle position sensor(s) operate between the two versions would be one system that wouldn't work correctly, and I'm sure there are others.
     
  6. test3090

    test3090 Rookie

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    Thank you so very much for your prompt response! Still, if I could have the BIN file of 2.7, I might have been able to make some comparisons and get some ideas about possible modifications - at least (saw pertinent links - do not mean to re-invent the wheel). Thanks again!!!
     
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  8. 355rockit

    355rockit Formula Junior
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    See post #96 in this thread.
     
  9. 3forty8

    3forty8 F1 Rookie
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    I would imagine the fuel maps, etc, would be quite different in the 2.7 355 chip vs. the 2.7 348 chip, but it would be one way to get that higher rev limit us 348 guys are looking for, lol! Let's get Ernie to try it on his car, yeah that's the ticket! :D
     
  10. test3090

    test3090 Rookie

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    I have seen post 96 and downloaded the file. Thanks for pointing this out in any case. I guess the "very similar" scares me a bit (as opposed to "identical" which would have sounded more reassuring).
    On another note, would an early (e.g. '90) 2.7 be any different from a '95 2.7, within the same flavor/model? In a few words, have there been any "minor" revisions, yet insignificant to constitute a major change (e.g. 2.8/2.9 etc)? Thank you for your time.
     
  11. jm3

    jm3 F1 Rookie

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    Since this is back up after 2 years, does anybody have a bin file from a F355 Challenge 2.7 yet, or a chip I could borrow for a day?
     
  12. Llenroc

    Llenroc F1 Rookie
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    There isn't any difference in the ECUs for the road car vs. the challenge 355s so the bin file would be the same. Remember the challenge series was a race against drivers not cars, ie; the cars were identical. There were two spring and sway bar options but that was about it for adjustably. The engines and ECUs even had seals on them to prevent tampering from factory specs.
     
  13. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    :D

    Hardy har har wisecrack. :p
     
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  15. test3090

    test3090 Rookie

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    #113 test3090, May 11, 2012
    Last edited: May 11, 2012
    Sorry for resurrecting this old thread but only recently I became an owner of an '89 348 hence these messages. If I may, a few points:
    1) It is definitely very intelligent deriving the SPC files for the 2.5 and 2.7. Thanks so much! Did you happen to encounter any revisions within 2.5 or 2.7 (on a 348 always)? In other words (thinking out-loud), would an "early" 2.7 look "identical" to a "late" 2.7? In support of this thought I noticed that your SPC files have alternative offsets (albeit commented) - but, does this suggest a possible change in offsets only or the value of registers as well?

    2) Did you attempt to actually perform any changes and try them on a vehicle? And if so, which ones would you advise to be "safe"? For instance, would raising of the "rev limiter" be advisable? Would you be willing to share (for a fee) some "optimal" profiles (as per your liking/experience/subjectivity) with the rest of us? In another thread I read a "debugged review" of an aftermarket "performance" chip using conspicuous programming e.g. jumping to certain registers thus by-passing a set of commands (with unknown/un-verified impact).

    3) In any case, do you happen to have the original BIN files for 2.5 and 2.7 that you used to derive the SPC files? If so, would you please kindly share them with me/us?

    Thank you so very much for your insight and time,
    George
     
  16. jm3

    jm3 F1 Rookie

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    I know that is what everybody said, but I have also heard many times that there were/are special chips.

    If I could borrow one, it would be win/win, we would know if "the challenge chip" has the same rev limit as the standard chip, or have a quick location for the rev limit in the bin file. (not that I want to raise the limit, but once you find that, it makes it easier to find other locations)

    I can't say more.
     
  17. No Doubt

    No Doubt Five Time F1 World Champ
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    I sent the .bin's to Plugzit who can post them here if desired.
     
  18. Llenroc

    Llenroc F1 Rookie
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    I'm not sure how better to say this but, there just isn't one. Both of my ECUs have seals on them and my redline is the same as the road car version. This was done to stop any tempering, before each race the ECUs could be swapped form one car to another just to insure there was no advantage to tempering. The parts book does not show any other units and the rules do not allow for anything other than the stock units.
    If there was ever a chip that changed the redline it wasn't used in the challenge series and in did not come from Ferrari.
     
  19. ants2au

    ants2au Formula Junior

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    #117 ants2au, Sep 20, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2012
    Sorry to dig this thread back up, but I am thinking of an ICE for the 256/512 eprom

    http://www.eetools.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=314&ParentCat=20

    I suppose for it to be useful, it would have to response at 90ns, so you can tune realtime.
    Would that be a correct assumption?

    Oh we would want two of them, to do that.


    Oh, and another idea I have is to use a EEPROM instead of a EPROM, if you intend on fiddling alot with the program/data. But thats another topic. Apparently doable.
     

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