I don't understand why... | Page 2 | FerrariChat

I don't understand why...

Discussion in 'F1' started by cptndon, Jun 5, 2023.

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  1. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    29,260
    socal
    Absolutely! I get it. It's different strokes for different folks. I like the physicality, pushing shoving and "contact" despite in the amateurs we are supposed to be non-contact. On any weekend there are 300 guys out and someone goes home with a bent car. I've been at this 25 years and lost 3 cars racing (one was a 348 back in the 90's) so fit perfectly in the statistical average for our club. That's way more carnage than many would endure but as kid I used to play hockey and did have a 35 year career in martial arts so I like the adrenaline rush of close quarters.

    I'm actually a chicken. Racing is safe! Ile of Mann TT not so much. Pike's peak??? On a close circuit emo crew is never more than 1/2 mile away. When we raced at places like Indy with a medical center they staffed the med center or at least have a medical chief to make sure the 2 ambulances are on site and ACLS is on site before we race. Rally you got trees. We have safer barrier and huge runoff room before a catch fence. Racing is safer than fishing miles from my truck on foot along a stream with bears and all kinds of natural hazards and only self -rescue.
     
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  2. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
    27,873
    #27 william, Jun 6, 2023
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2023
    I think rallying declined for different reasons than the dominance of 2 French drivers.
    The FIA is guilty here as well, for licensing the organisation rights of the World Rallye Championship, like it did for F1.
    The new organisation took over and changed the sporting rules, eliminated the different categories and classes, to reduce the championship to one common car definition. Suddenly many manufacturers, tuners and specialists were unable to compete.
    Next, they completely changed the aspect of rallying, by shortening the duration to 2 days maximum, reducing the specials length, stopping night driving, and restricting the number of participants. Like for F1, everything was done to satisfy TV channels to sell them the rights.
    Rallyes are no long itineraries anymore, but repetitive loops around a town, so they only touch a smaller audience.
    National authorities had to copy these changes for their national championships, under threat of loosing their own WRC event
    Thousands of cars were made illegal, homologations were only granted to factory-sanctioned cars, independent tuners were put out of business, and many participants who couldn't afford these changes gave up the sport, taking the fans away with them.
    They eliminated the grassroots. That's what killed rallying.
     
  3. USMCS6

    USMCS6 F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 21, 2018
    4,834
    Arlington VA and Daytona Fl
    Full Name:
    Elliot
    I'm a run what you brung NHRA racer. Quick 16. Sure there is the occasional guy thats two car lengths ahead is any race. BLA. I'm not saying RB and Max don't deserve it, it but come on. This is crap "racing" The guys in the back are more fun. Max gets 8 seconds out, pulls it back and coasts. He should NEVER be driver of the day. There is no way anyone can say hes "driving it" Look at last weekend. He was black flagged.
     
  4. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Neither is “tire management.”
     
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  5. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    29,260
    socal
    So easy to mess up a good thing!
     
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  6. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    29,260
    socal
    Agree crap racing. Not sure why I watch it but I do. It is rare I don't fall asleep during part of the race.
     
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  7. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,856

    Those things you mention could be a consequence more than a cause. All rallyes have been shortended to reduce the expenses of the promoters: in national championships some rallyes only have two or three stages that they repeat several times in just one day. There are more concerns about the safety of the spectators too. The TV coverage and special stages at cities are supposed to attract a broader audience. And still there are lesser classes in the world championship, from R1 to R3, and sometimes the Junior class.
     
  8. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
    43,000
    ESP
    Full Name:
    Bas
    The thing is, to get such a speed advantage on engine, you need vastly more power not just a bit better. I'm sure someone can post the formula here but we're talking a huge power advantage if that was true...and we're just not seeing that in acceleration even. ERS is desperately inefficient at high speeds (given battery power use per lap allowance vs gain) as well so to use it there doesn't make sense, either.
     
  9. xpensivewino

    xpensivewino Formula Junior

    Jan 26, 2008
    960
    Simi Valley CA
    Full Name:
    Need to know basis
    “I don’t understand why”

    Adrian Newey
     
  10. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,742
    Tire management back in the Prost and Senna days was how Prost beat Senna multiple times.
    Here, tire management, was how one won races. Schumacher change that game.......

    But now we have mandatory pit stops which eliminate tire management to a significant degree.
     
  11. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie


    There are plenty of overtakes at the TT.

    There are no defensive moves as the bike in front cannot see the faster bike approaching behind :D


    btw, IOM is not in the UK, but is part of the Brtish Isles.
     
  12. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,742
    #37 Mitch Alsup, Jun 7, 2023
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2023
    a) An aero-limited vehicle takes a cubic increase (2^3 = 8×) in power to double speed (2×).
    So, if 1000 HP tops out at 200 MPH, 1100 HP would top out at 207 MPH.
    A 100 HP increase is not feasible with the fuel flow limitations today.

    ETA:: consider an F355 with 380 HP and a top speed of 185 versus a 296 with 820 HP (2×) and a 211 MPH top speed. It takes massive HP to move top speed by big numbers.

    b) if you look at the speed graph of Hamilton versus Max, At speeds lower than 200 MPH max and Lewis cars accelerate rather equally; This indicates rather equal HP/weight on a per car basic. Lewis gets up to about 200 MPH and flat lines, while Max continues to climb at ever decreasing rate. Lewis has a draggy car right now, Max has a slippery car that is generating more downforce at lower drag levels.
     
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  13. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
    27,873
    Yes, there are overtakings at the TT.
    There are no defensive moves because the starts are staggered, and the riders are not competing against each other on the circuit.
    Every rider Who gets caught has already lost time compared to his pursuers. Therefore there is no incentive to resist a pass.
     
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  14. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Tire management now, combined with related aero considerations, the 2 compound requirement and pit lane speed limits, beats the death out of racecraft. Sorry, but I don’t see how the current regulations eliminate tire management. It’s an artifice.
     
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  15. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie


    But they are competing !

    Blocking overtakes would cost a slower bike time, and would also cost the faster bike time. But they don't have rear view mirrors anyway, so it's all good :)
     
  16. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
    27,873
    You do not seem to have the faintest idea of what you are talking about.
     
  17. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie


    Brilliant.

    Just wait until you meet Carl Cox
     

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