I don't want to speed but..

We have had Gatsos in the UK for some years now. The special licence plates don't do any good by the way...the best defence against them is a GPS based warning system that tells you to slow down when approaching a Speed Camera. The location of the cameras is kept in a database which you can download to your device from the internet to keep up to date.

The law over here regarding the cameras is still evolving, but basically it's got tighter the whole time.

As regards safety, deaths on the road have increased due to the policy of replacing traffic cops with cameras.

 

Ken,

Maybe the title quote isn't the best. How about the following, "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is that good people do nothing." That's a general paraphrase. The point is, of course, if we (tax-paying citizens) don't like the direction things are going in, the only way we can change it is by screaming loudly

The relevance, of course, is that if you don't like photoradar, write your representative and complain. If they receive enough complaints, something might happen. Probably not, but you never know.

I don't think you should regret having raised this topic. For whatever reason, some posts do seem to be accusatory and aggressive. Frequently I roll my eyes at posts and kick myself for having spent the time reading them. I totally empathize with and relate to your driving plight here in the DC area. I think it's outrageous that traffic lights aren't coordinated better. Inexcusable. Politicians and traffic engineers should be utterly ashamed and commit seppuku if their jurisdictions aren't efficiently moving traffic in and out. In the DC area, this is one of the single most, if not the most, infuriating issues in quality of life. In fact, DC, as a region, is one of the worst in the country when it comes to congestion. Why they're not doing more, I don't know. I guess it boils down to the fact that it costs a surprising amount of money to coordinate lights. In fact, it's a shocking amount.

I believe that there's no one better than the driver him or herself to determine what constitutes safe and reasonable driving behavior for the existing conditions. However, this does not mean that I advocate doing away with traffic laws and enforcement.

Unfortunately, many drivers have no idea how to drive nor what reasonable is. I really blame the system for not properly educating and training drivers. The driving test? A trained monkey can probably pass it! Most drivers have no idea about stopping distances and panic braking and car handling and performance.

Moreover, we let people operate motor vehicles while chowing supersize meals, having some inane phone conversation, yelling at the kids in the back seat, or just generally ignoring what's going on around them. Arguably, this is more dangerous than driving fast while paying attention to the road ahead.

Someone made the point that driving in Europe (and I have extensively driven there) is safer (I guess fewer fatalities) despite higher, and in some cases unlimited, speed limits. Well, there are lies, damn lies and then there are statistics. I could probably write another twenty paragraphs picking apart the numbers, but generally, I agree that European drivers are better trained and therefore safe. In fact, some studies have shown that higher speed limits actually reduce the number of incidents. Of course, at higher rates of speed, if you do have an incident, there is a higher likelihood of injury and fatality.

American roads (highways) have been constructed to sustain much higher speeds safely. Vehicles are far more advanced then they were when the 55mph speed limit was adopted. And, 55 was the optimal speed for fuel efficiency at the time. In my opinion, fatalities dropped coincidentally. Tires, brakes, and suspensions have all made significant improvements since the mid 70's. Why haven't speed limits kept up?

As much as I would enjoy another opportunity to blast traffic laws, I don't want to totally hijack your thread. Ignore remarks that silly, trite and smug. Or, just smile.

Safe Motoring!

CW

 

Ken, your initial post led me to believe that you had a complete disregard for speed laws. Your later posts were much better in explaination and detail. Just an observation. If your original post was the only one then I would've agreed with the personal attacks. Enough of that.

I speed. But I don't run red lights (pet-peeve o' mine, anyway, along with people who don't use their turn signals). On my daily driver I have the front plate angled down and UNDER the bumper. Not at 45º mind you but somewhat close. Makes the laser cops work to get a reflection and lessens plate visibility for aerial photography identification. The portable photo-radar units around here take a picture of the BACK of the vehicle so I'm stuck when it comes to that. Luckily, my Valentine 1 saves me here

For advanced warning of radar sites I highly recommend the Valentine 1. Mine has paid for itself time and again, plus those directional arrows and bogey counter just put it over the top!

Here in Beaverton there's a red-light intersection and I've seen it in action many times. Now that the city FINALLY increased the yellow light time I've personally seen less offenders. Typical tactict, install red light cameras and reduce the yellow light time to up the chances bringing in more money, er, I mean "catching red light runners". BTW, if the light turns red while you're in the intersection, even if you are just past the intersection stop line, it won't take a picture. The light must be red and the car must travel from the stop zone into the intersection. That's what the ground sensor and opposite aerial sensors check for (what one of our "finest" (not) told me).

Portland itself will apparently be getting its traffic light patterns upgraded to more logical flow patterns. Now, we all know this not only allows traffic to keep moving but also saves fuel because it takes much more energy to move a car that is stopped than it is to keep it in motion. Well, the brain-pool in city hall finally figured this out and it's 'estimated' that $17 millon will be saved in fuel consumption per year (I don't know how they came up with that number). This will also reduce vehicle emissions and traffic jams. Let's hope the logic spreads to the east

Down in Coberg there is a blatant speed trap along (or near?) interstate 5 (the news wasn't specific about it). The city has been RAKING in the money. Legislation is in progress to have such ticket monies given to the school system (where it's sorely needed!) instead of the city's coffers. There are allegations of quotas within that police dept. as well (what's new?). I agree with this legislation and hope it gets approved. Though it would help the school system it would also reduce the Naziness of traffic cops and we have our share of such *******s here in Washington county. Personally, I would hate traffic detail if I were a cop -- I'd rather see more cops patrolling in the city/neighborhoods than parked along roadways playing bread-winner for the city.

It's all about the funding the city. Have more people fight tickets instead of just paying them and it would cost the courts so much time and extra expenses that there would be less focus on issuing such tickets.

Okay...just re-reading thru my post and it sounds like I hate cops. Not true, I just hate their job in regards to traffic situations. All the ones I have met* have been professional and courteous and I understand that aspect of their job is not pleasant so I respect the uniform.

*Well, the one who gave me a hard time was a Hillsboro motorcycle cop. Tried to give me some lecture about my concealed hand gun (I carry a permit) as if I had no training nor idea about guns. I reported him to the supervisor of the Concealed Hand Gun Unit -- they're a nice, understanding unit .

 

Good grief, the answer is simple take you car out of town to speed. I feel sorry for you guys in big cities, that don't get the chance to get out of second gear.

 

that statement above is sad...


what about getting some of that spray stuff? It goes on clear from an aersal spray can. It scrambs the picture and makes it grainy and stuff.

 

Some jurisdictions, by the way, outlaw radar detectors. VA is one of them. Reason being what exactly? I cannot think of one purpose for this other than another "squeeze" by the system.

I agree that tickets should be challenged, but let me say that in my experience as an observant and as a defendant, the presiding traffic judges and the public prosecutors really aren't all that caring or sympathetic (and I'm a lawyer). They are generally loathe to cut you loose on a technicality and, as a general rule, always uphold the officer. Even if they did make a mistake (like a typo). Pointing out the mistake can be a catch-22, so to speak. Many judges, if the argument uses the wrong tone or words, will feel that you are a smug little know-it-all and will treat you like a smart-a$$. Needless to say, I have seen it go all bad before. Moreover, depending on the jurisdiction you were cited in, the officers are trained enough to cover their bases. That's not to say that they're conspiring against us. What I mean is they've been properly trained in the use of the radars and usually have their paperwork in order (at least every officer I've ever had the displeasure of meeting did).

You will pay for this by getting hit not just with a fine (in some jurisdictions as you know it's quite stiff), but to add insult to injury they will also add a court fee. Also, don't forget the aggravation factor and the time away from work and lost income. Unfortunately, I don't think we'll "break" the system by all showing up and fighting our tickets. Laughably, they patrol the surrounding areas like hawks for expired meters in DC. Go in to fight your speeding ticket, come away with a fine, court fee and parking ticket!

Sorry, everyone, this is a sensitive topic for me. Abuse of power is one of my pet peeves. Well, maybe abuse isn't exactly the correct term. How about "structural advantage". They close ranks and do whatever they can to favor the outcome they desire. In other words, it's just so painful to fight most people just pay the ticket and take the points.

I've fought tickets and gotten reductions, but never an outright dismissal. Moreover, I really think you all should do a web search for the articles on the photoradar tickets, evidentiary deficiencies and how the courts treat them. You might be amazed at what the courts and, and will, do.

CW

 

I live in DC and hate both types of cameras. My problem with the red light cameras is that if you see a yellow, you have to either floor the car to get through in time, or slam on the brakes, both of which are unsafe. While some people claim that red light cameras deter red light runners, it has been proven that if you just increase the actual duration of the yellow light, then red light running goes down to almost nothing. Whats worse, many cities have lowered the actual duration of the yellow light so they can get more revenue!
As for the speed cameras, to the DC folks here, the DC DMV website lists the location of all possible speed camera traps. The best way to avoid them is to learn where they are and keep an eye out for Ford Crown Vics. It is never another type of car, and they are always conspicuously parked. Many times I've been going over the speed limit, then I'll slow to a crawl as I pass the cop and honk my horn and wave. Some cops (not everyone) actually honk and wave back!
If DC puts in fixed cameras, then that would be a real problem. The DC gov is way too money hungry at the expense of city residents. I've gotten a ticket for parking in front of my own house because I was less than 10 feet from the intersection! If they do end up putting in fixed cameras, the only way that we'd be able to beat them is to learn their location.

PS. Snow during the winter months is also a good license plate cover.

 

Ken I just wanted to get your attention , which I have done. You'll know how to work at being a better defensive driver. Just look your kids in the eye befor you start the car. No one is perfect , I got my last ticket in 1960 for loud exhaust . If the folks here don't like the laws then be active and get the laws changed and vote out the bad representatives. For the city folks take a ride out in the country and dump the throttle and enjoy the ride or go to a local track and do a little driver school. I had a good time at Pocono doin 160mph down the straits . Try it and you'll get a lasting memory. So until all of thoese things get fixed its simple , don't block the box , don't yield for stop signs , don't run red lights , don't pass stopped school busses , cover the brake when going down hill , use your turn signals , turn off the driving lights in on comming traffic , don't pass on double yellow , hands free cel's and most important pull over for the more important person who needs to get to where they are going without consideration for others. Enough said.

 

Ken, i was joking with you, some of the guys jumped on you and i was hoping to add a bit of comic relief, smile!!! GD is huge........ i only play with the aircraft!!

 

That seems to be the point. Most of the drivers here aren't from here.
This is "Never Never Land": The roads are full of "lost boys".

Okay, so you're holier than everyone. Congratulations. Now take a step back and read the rest of what we've been saying.

Lousy laws aren't an "excuse". It's a call for action.

If a law is unpopular, wrong, and profitable, there's darn little chance that the mewing of kittens from "the peepel" is going to get govenments to give them up.

If a law is unpopular, wrong, and unenforcable, then governments with the pretense of being democratic will "yield to the will of the people".

The camera tagging game is an arms race, pitting technology against technology to decide the question of civil rights versus expendiency.

But the point is that every bad law detracts from the good ones. When the public only sees cops over a radar gun, they become "the enemy". And pretty soon, cops see the public as merely criminals that haven't been caught yet.

This adversarial relationship is largely the result of governments using law enforcement officers as revenue generators, instead of letting them get on with their role to protect and serve.

 

Not everybody likes to roll around 30 mph in 2nd gear.... yup, the law is the law and it is a personal decision to speed and yes you need to accept the consequences if you are caught but..... why should we make it any easier for the police to catch us TERRIBLE LAWBREAKERS? You say 65mph is all you need on the interstates but that's not the same for everyone. Do you really think speed is the only factor that makes driving safe or unsafe? I didn't think so. I mean who is the safer driver, the guy who sits in the outside lane going the speed limit at 65mph while people are swerving around him or nailing the brakes or someone who follows the lines and goes 80 mph with good spacing?

 

I hate to break in on all the bickering but I would like to know all the options on the avoidance of getting a ticket by camera. Which is the best photoblocker? I don't live near the city but I don't want to take any chances.

 

Can someone explain how the picture is taken and from where.
I am in Florida. We don't even have front license plates, so I assume if they use these camersa down here they must be taking our pictuer from behind.
I am referrring to speding cameras, not red light camers.
I live in central florida, where we have all open roads with infrequent stop lights between towns, and turnpikes with toll booths. We scream down here. The speed limits are usually 65 and 70 and most people are going at least 90 or 100. I thought our biggest threat was the Florida Highway Patrol with Ka band radar. They supposedly have lasers but I have never heard my detector go off for it. How do you determine where speeding cameras are? Other than getting a ticket that is.
Gary

 

using turn signals in los angeles gives other drivers just enough warning of your intentions to block you from merging over. if you are serious about changing lanes in LA don't use your turn signals. i'm only half-kidding...

 

"using turn signals in los angeles gives other drivers just enough warning of your intentions to block you from merging over"

That's why you first start to change lanes and then, when you're far enough in to make it, fire off a couple clicks on the turn signal. It says, "hey, I know I'm cutting you off, but you know you wouldn't have let me in."

 

I've been wondering.. how is photo radar not a violation of due process?