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I enlarged my 308 manual's electrical schematic

Discussion in '308/328' started by chairpilot, Dec 12, 2007.

  1. chairpilot

    chairpilot Formula 3

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    #1 chairpilot, Dec 12, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Just a heads up to anyone here who does their own electrical diagnosis on these cars -

    If anyone has tried to diagnose their electrical problems on this car (or on any other for that matter), then they may relate to the following. The 308 owner's manual electrical wiring schematic is great to have alright, but very hard to read when trying to follow an individual circuit. Also, with everything listed (numbered) on other pages, one has to flip back and forth to figure out what's going on (%!$#$!#).

    So, I decided to have mine copied and blown up to 36" x 24" in size (Arch D size). After a few copy edit redos, to clean up some line defects, I cut & pasted in ALL the number keys (from the other pages) along with the relay panel diagram, on the same sheet. I now have readable diagram all in one view. I can easily follow the lines to and from components. I took it one further step and had it laminated with a special dry erase plastic so I can now trace out a given circuit I'm working on in colored pen and then wipe it clean when I'm done, ready for the next tracing project. The dry erase markers act just like highlighters. And its easy to keep clean of grease and dirt while in use around the car.

    It rolls up in a tube for safe storage. I may just hang it on the garage wall instead! I'll be glad to assist anyone through the process if they want to do this too.

    Bob R.
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  3. Yamaric

    Yamaric Karting

    Apr 7, 2007
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    That is fantastic, Great job.
    you should print these and make them available to the members here. Im sure you would get a lot of interest.
    I would love to have one for my 2V GTSi.
     
  4. Corsa308

    Corsa308 Formula Junior

    Apr 22, 2007
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    Yep, done the same thing myself.
    Scanned and enlarged. Heaps easier to read and work on.

    Steve
     
  5. chairpilot

    chairpilot Formula 3

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    I would be glad to do this for others. However, right now I'd have to assess exactly how I'd supply them to you. There are many steps involved in how I did mine. Also, to get the best clear copy made, it would be best to have the actual sheets from your owner's manual to scan. If it is different than my car, and to be accurate for your own car, you would have to either send me your manual and trust me to return it after making the enlargement, or get your pages scanned in a *.tiff or *.pdf format and email it to me for enlargement processing. Since I did mine by directly scanning my manual, I could review the results immediately. I am not sure of the clarity your emailed files would result in. But it should work.

    The steps involved are as follows:

    I first take the manual into the blueprinter for scanning the pages needed and to print an enlargement (1st draft) to the size 36"x24". I then cut and paste in the text and images copied from the other pages (relay panel, number keys, etc.) onto the master. I also look over the preliminary master for scanning blemishes, gaps in lines and assorted other "defects" and fix them by darken the lines or using white out between them. I can add text to put your car model and you name on it too. Once this is done, I return to the blueprinter to make a copy of my altered master so I can see if everything looks clean. If so then it is laminated for the finished product. If it needs more clean up, I correct those defects and have another test copy made. If that looks good then it gets laminated and we're done. Mine took the two test copies because I wanted it close to perfect. Most of yours will probably also require this unless you don't mind some minor shaded lines from the cut and pasted inserts.

    As for labor cost, I spent the better part of a day (total) to get mine competed. But, since I now know the process better, I can do others more quickly - more like 1/2 a day. If I get multiple requests to do these at one time, I can do much better on the time since trips to the blueprinter are a good portion of the process. In any case I will state a fixed cost for my time no matter how long I take to get it nice. I will also review my copying and laminating cost invoices when they come soon (I'm a building contractor and have a house account at the local blueprinters). I will post a total cost + shipping soon. Note that almost any size can be done. I chose 36"x24" so it would fit on my drafting table. But, smaller or larger versions can also be done. Plans are done up to 48"x36" so I know that size is attainable. Mine was done in black and white to save on cost. Color could also be done but I would have no clue on how much added cost would be involved. For my needs, B&W is just fine. The colored dry erase markers provide the color contrast needed to diagnosis. Assuming I have your manual or scanned file in hand, I would estimate a 5-10 day turn around time to get it all done and shipped back to you. Shipping would be in a cardboard tube.

    Hope this all helps you. PM me if anyone is interested further. It so happens I do have two owner's manuals, one for my '83 GTS QV Euro version and another a friend gave me to use from his '81-'82 GTSi US version. So if you have either of those cars, I'm already covered for the "master" to scan.

    Regards,

    Bob R.
     
  6. FasterIsBetter

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    Bob,

    Looks really great. You should mass produce them and sell them on here. Sign me up as customer #1!

    Steve
     
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  8. mike308gts

    mike308gts Karting

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    I would buy one too! Great!

    Mike
     
  9. TwinOne

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    This was the first thing I did when I bought the car to track down why I had no dash lights. It now hangs on my office wall!
     
  10. bls2219

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  11. chairpilot

    chairpilot Formula 3

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    #9 chairpilot, Dec 13, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    WOW! I'm getting a bunch of responses on this schematic issue!! The question typically being asked first is does my diagram match their car. So far I have little experience with my car let alone other years/models wiring yet. My recommendation to all, if you can, take a good digital photo of your car manual's wiring diagram and email it to me so I can match it up with mine. Hopefully if it is readable, I can spot check almost everything and confirm if your's is the same or if I need your scanned sheet. Mind you this will not be the image I use for the blow up. Just a comparison check only. Once I see a few other car's diagrams, I can post a list of what cars appear the same of close enough not to worry about. Indeed, even if you do not want one but have one in your manual to send me a photo of that I can view for reference, I'd greatly appreciate it for the other guys. The complete list of potentially different diagrams might be long, as there are the years 1975 - 1989, 308-328 GTS, GTB & GT4, plus the Mondials, the 288.......!!!!! Then there are other F cars........ no limit! In any case, as any diagrams come in to me and I can reference them for comparison as best I can, I'll post them to all hee so you'll know what works for you. I also would like shots of the number key pages as I can maybe tell easier from them what is the same between models.
    PM me for my contact information.
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  13. chairpilot

    chairpilot Formula 3

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    Excellent - good call!
     
  14. pdmracing

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  15. spiderseeker

    spiderseeker Formula 3

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    I had mine enlarged to the same 2' x 3' size at Kinkos a couple of years ago for about $10 I think, it really makes it easy to follow. I didn't know of anyone capable of laminating something so large, so I never had it done. Cleaning up the diagrams and labeling will really speed up troubleshooting. Dry ink eraser is a terrific idea too.
    Great job !
     
  16. chairpilot

    chairpilot Formula 3

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    I thought about Kinko's but have an account at the local blueprinters and get fast service. They also knew about all kinds of lamination materials. Hopefully they will be cheaper. I first thought just to enlarge the wiring page but then decided to insert the number keys on the same sheet to avoid the flipping back and forth all the time, having everything in one view.

    I wish you continued good luck with your car!
     
  17. Mike C

    Mike C F1 Veteran
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    Is your scanner larger than legal size, so you could do the entire sheet without cut-and-paste?
     
  18. chairpilot

    chairpilot Formula 3

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    No Mike,

    Here's how I do it. My blueprinter has a professional (and expensive!) enlarging scanner that takes my original 15"x11" wiring diagram directly (I carefully removed it from my booklet) and blows it up to what size I want. That way I got the cleanest line separations and highest contrast for the blow up copy off the original - this was the key step in the whole process. I then take that (1st) big copy back to my office and do the cut-paste thing with the keys and relay panel picture right on it. When I'm happy with the layout and any cleaned up defects, I return to the blueprinter and they duplicate it at its 36x24 full size. Back at my office, I check it for any more defects, clean them up and return a third time for one last (hopefully) scanned copy. That 2nd large copy was good enough for me so I had them laminate it on the spot. All in all, mine took 3 trips over two days and about 1/2 day of my fussing over making all the corrections.

    I'm telling eveyone that if they send me good clean photo copies of their relay panel drawing, number and color key pages on 8.5x11 and their actual wire diagram sheet (which you'll have to trust me with returning to you of course). That would give you optimum results. I would not trust a standard size photo copy of the wire diagram because it would fuzz up too much to look clean when blown up. Otherwise, get your wire diagram sheet blown up to the actual size you want (I like 36x24) and printed on white bond paper at your local Kinko's, roll it up in a tube and mail everything to me. Then you can keep your manual's copy. I easily can take it from there.

    Bob R.
     
  19. 330gt

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    #16 330gt, Dec 14, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I went a step further for my 308's wiring diagram from the '78 USA owner's manual. I scanned it and then made a CAD drawing on top of the scanned page, enlarging it to D-sized (2'x3'). That was I was able to color all of the wires in their correct colors, use arrows for current flow, etc. That makes it much easier to follow a given wire from one end to another and understand a given circuit.

    Then I had it printed on glossy photographic paper using a large color printer so it is full-sized on a single piece of paper. If anybody is interested, I can have more printed. However, due to the printing cost, they are not cheap. For more information, PM me.

    Regards, Kerry

    PS, also have similar diagrams for Series II PF Coupe/Cab, Series I and II 330 GTs. I've attached a picture of the 330 GT Series II one to give an idea of what these look like. Of course, the 308 one is a lot more complicated.
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  20. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    that is SUPER cool looking, hats off to you !
     
  21. Brapbrapbrap

    Brapbrapbrap Karting

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    If you wanted to make it available to us, simply print it a pdf file. The pdf can be resized and printed by kinko's easily.

    H
     
  22. chairpilot

    chairpilot Formula 3

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    If you meant me, I would be glad to. But they will charge me on time for the file too (they put it on a CD). Also, I only have my '83 308 Euro done. I've already confirmed that a few other guys have different component numbers on their diagrams so sending mine out might not be correct, let alone confusing.
     
  23. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

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    Bob,
    I think you have a good little business opportunity here, not to mention helping out the 308 community. You can download any and all owners manuals (including the schematics) from the owners site on .pdf. Can you do this with a pdf?

    Birdman
     
  24. chairpilot

    chairpilot Formula 3

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    I'll look into it Birdman, thanks. PDF format should work just fine. Except I do not have a full version working prorgam that can modify (.i.e - cut/paste) those type files.

    Side question Birdman - how do you get more than one photo on your profile page (I like both your cars there).
     
  25. 330gt

    330gt Formula 3

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    I spent quite a bit of time trying to get my CAD schematics printed. PDFs don't support that large of drawing, or at least the full Adobe Acrobat version 5 (current version back then) didn't seem to have any way to do it.

    I talked to Kinko's (who wanted a PDF). They thought that they could plot it from a TIF file, but weren't sure. Their price (from 3-4 years ago) was $8 per sq.ft. or about $50 for a 2x3 drawing. I never got around to finding the paper type that would be used. I also tried installing the printer driver for the equipment they had and then printing to a file using that driver. That didn't work either.

    I finally took a TIF file to an engineering blueprint type company who used a large plotter. Very expensive and on plain paper.

    Eventually I found a commercial photographer who has a 4' wide Epson ink-jet printer. He can print from a TIF file and uses glossy photographic paper, so the end product is excellent.

    I doubt that a small PDF would blow up and maintain the detail. And as you can tell, it is expensive to figure out what works and what doesn't.
     
  26. Mike C

    Mike C F1 Veteran
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    I've done the same thing... you just use a graphics program (PhotoShop, CorelPaint, etc) to tile separate photos into one. If you don't have that capability, I'd be glad to do it for you... just PM me.
     
  27. chairpilot

    chairpilot Formula 3

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    Got it Mike. I do have Photoshop 5.0 and know how to do it with that then.

    Thanks for the heads up and your offer.
     
  28. chairpilot

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    I finally got my invoice for the schematic enlargement and lamination costs:

    Enlarge owner's manual diagram to 36"x24" and make the full size initial draft copy - $12.00
    Make a second draft 36"x24" copy of modified enlargement - $3.00
    Make final 36"x24" approved copy and laminate with clear 3 mil sheeting both sides - $40.00

    So, the out-sourced costs came to $55.00. Your local blueprinter (or maybe even Kinko's) can do this part for you, excluding the laying out of the diagrams & keys.

    PM me if you would like me to assist in any way for yours. Checking back, I spent about 4 hours overall over two days cutting/pasting, including back & forth at the printer to get mine done the way I liked.

    Bob R.
     

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