i feel sorry for some of the monterey buyers

I don't feel sorry for them at all.

They've been warned. If they want to play this game, then they have the chance to lose.

I feel sorry for the real enthusiasts who would love to own these cars not as an investment but as something to cherish and drive, not sit in an air conditioned garage.

They are priced out of the market. They are the ones to feel sorry for.

 

The party continues !

I don't feel sorry for any of them either , but then again why should anyone feel sorry?

Spending is great for the economy !

 

I stand by what I say. Rising prices are good for a few and terrible for the majority. And, it's based on speculation and marketing hype, not for the love of the vehicles.

Sorry, I don't see the point. There's a lot of way to make a lot of money. Having a car sit in your air conditioned garage seems like a terrible waste.

 

I share your sentiment on this. The real enthusiasts have been totally priced out of the market.

Our market here being a prime example of this, for a 355 one is looking at $200k....

 

Speaking of non-enthusiast with money, that is what I think when I see a garage full of nothing buy new cars and bikes.

 

Very well said, I agree 100% with this.

 

Why does everyone say "the enthusiasts" have been priced out? Besides a handful of speculators and dealers buying these auction cars, how does everyone KNOW who's buying, and why is the asertation that because they paid "above market" (that phrase isn't existent, the market simply "is") they aren't enthusiasts? Enthusiasts can't pay $1.5+ for an F40 because it's simply a car they've lusted for and wanted for years, and HAVE the money to buy it? On that premise, all "rich" people aren't enthusiasts, just speculators; that makes zero sense to me.

I'm dirt poor compared to the majority of high auction buyers, but my aims and goals are still to buy a few of the gems I long for. When that opportunity presents itself, will I have to pony up big bucks? Yea, probably, and you know what, if I can afford to buy the car, I'm going to drive the wheels off it...

 

Its neat to sit back and watch the market. I never kept my cars for very long because I am just an aircraft mechanic and wanted the fun and cash flow. So I was able to own: 208GT4, 308GT4 euros, 3 76-77 308 GTB's, a 78 308 GTS, euro QV GTB, a euro QV GTS and two 328's (GTS)!

The Lambo Jalpas were a huge disappointment, but the Uracco was fun.

I am very grateful for the smiles and memories of just driving these cars as "cars" and to be honest the cars i have had are small potatoes in the Ferrari world.

But even an over educated airplane mechanic was able to have them, enjoy them, and let them go to the next enthusiast. I miss having a beater 328 or QV around. But I cant afford the cars at these prices and save for retirement, get my masters, blah blah.

But its still neat to see what the market does. And what these new owners do with the cars.

 

This...is the real goal! Star Wars figures still in the package are worth all sorts of cash-but it would have been NO fun being the only kid with a mint Han solo still in the cheap Kenner plastic package

 

I think some of the real enthusiasts ARE being priced out. Some of us have been saving for a while in an attempt to purchase say a 550 maranello (until last year, avaliable for around €60-70k).

Before very long these are likely to be €200k.

That prices me out for now.

And this is mostly because of people looking to make a buck have seen that cars like this (Ferrari with a manual) ate easy to make a buck on. They weren't interested in these cars for all these years and suddenly they are.

Speaking for myself; I don't want a ''cheaper'' Ferrari, like a mondial or 348, or whatever will become the entry level (price wise). I've wanted a 550 for many years.

 

Well, I was characterize myself as an "enthusiast" and at least in my estimation, perfectly fit the concept of being 'priced out'. I always wanted a F512m...as in for well over 15 years. Unfortunately my income / savings did not allow me to remotely permit a purchase. When I finally after years was in a place to start looking in earnest (end of last year)...prices had moved...and FAST. No amount of careful budgeting/saving/etc would allow me to purchase one at that point or now. Same goes for the 94 512TR (my other favorite). Now if the price trajectory continues (even a markedly decreased rate), they will outstrip my saving/income rate....

Are all high end buyers speculators? No, not at all. No one can argue there are fewer enthusiasts at that price point...simple math given there are fewer people total at that level.

 

i saw this in 1989. things may be different this time. but when new (ish) cars are caught up in the froth, its usually a bad sign.[/QUOTE]



Is the KENO Brothers (antique furniture experts) now have their own Classic Car auction platform/show. Scheduled for NYC this Fall.....titled along the lines of "Moving Sculpture"...really playing the "art angle". Think back to ALL those real estate shows just before that wave smashed against the rocks!

The End Is Near (imo)

Jack

 

I'll chime in and say, yes this is all nuts. But markets correct, always.

 

a 3.2 or t should do the trick. Even a Mondial QV is fun to drive.

Decent drivers (QVs) can still be had for less than 30K. 3.2's between 25K and 35K. And ts in the mid 30s.

Just as fun to drive as a 3x8 - with a bonus of a back seat. And, to some of us, the Mondial Coupe is one very gorgeous car.

Sid

P.S - Better get one fast. http://www.ebay.com/itm/361364873665?forcerRptr=true&item=361364873665&viewitem=
(Same car here: http://ainventory.eurocaroc.com/vehicle-details/1988-ferrari-mondial-convertible-31fe6efe3ca5194ab05a24a5df3f1c18/ )

 

+1

This is one of the signs of the impending apocalypse.

Just like in 2008 when a checkout clerk at the grocery store handed me her real estate business card.
That was the sign it was time to sell.

 

Yup, yup, yup. Sure looks like 1989-1990 all over again. Maybe it'll "be different this time", but I doubt it. Slightly different? Yes, but no matter what happens, the easy money has already been made. Much more difficult for Fcars to double in value from here, compared to the last 1-2 years.

I watched Mecum off/on over the the weekend and was not very impressed by ordinary cars, including the few lesser Ferraris they had. The really rare and nice stuff got pretty good prices, but a lot of ordinary cars looked...well, ordinary. Sold for that, too. Dunno about other auction houses, tho.

This will change the nature of Fchat, as 'new' former owners fade out, after having ca$hed out, and the investor/flipper class doesn't add much to this forum. I'm already seeing signs of this, in that a LOT of threads on Fchat are all about the pricing and fewer are about the experience.

Many times I see one of these garage queens I think about how unlike the coin/art/other collectible markets, in the car biz, autos deteriorate. Yeah, you can mask it somewhat, but unless you wanna view a car as strictly 'automobile art', owning one of these is a case study in deterioration. Not how I wanna have my money tied up, for sure. Not to mention the liquidity situation, either. Hell of a lot easier to sell a valuable coin than to turn over an Fcar, unless you wanna give it away.

I'm OUT, might get back in sometime, but not while things are all bubbly. Only bubbles I wanna see are in my bath water

 

You know, as an enthusiast , I find this all rather disturbing and rather insulting to be honest with all the people CRYING about the new pricing levels.

15 yrs ago I bought my first testarossa at a six figure number , and watched it go down over the years to 50 odd grand. I worked my tale off to afford such a car. Now that I see prices on the uptick, all I read ion here is the CRY BABIES claiming the enthusiast is pushed out.

Guess what ..... No you have not been pushed out , all it means is you have to work harder, and smarter to attain your dream just like I had too And others 15 yrs ago and beyond.

It amazes me the way socialism has taken hold of how people react when they can't get what they want for what the "free market" dictates.

I think some of the so called enthusiasts may want to rethink that title every time they complain about being priced out ..... And cry about it.

I still have hopes and dreams of a Daytona to add to my garage, I haut haven't figured out a way to get it yet, but God bless the people that have one and found a way to get one, something I aspire too, not cry about.

God bless America and the free market! - because the alternative is far WORSE

 

this is how I feel about it. I also take some pride in seeing my decent automotive purchase decisions being validated in the rising valuations.

big red is spot on...have a dream, set your goals for attainment, make it happen...live the dream. stop sniveling.

 

I think I'm jaded because within the past 5 years, it's been my goal to find "dream" cars for relatively small money. Yes, it's possible, you just need to know where and how. Would you believe me if I said I bought an Aston DB5 in 2011 for $60,000? Or a 330GTC just last year for sub $350K? Or an A6G for even less? No, not likely anyone would, but it happened, and will continue to happen, and it is possible to be an enthusiast and still own and enjoy these cars. This is why the "market" means nothing. In the end, a car will only be worth whatever someone else is willing to pay, so it's hard to get mad at people who wish to spend their millions on objects like these. I just shrug and keep working towards the ones I want to put in my garage, they'll all get there someday (hopefully gas is still relevant

My short list would be a TR as well, 550M, 3500GT and a Pantera

 

Well... I paid $8000 for my 246 Gt at age 23 and spent 2 years working with a buddy in his shop to get it running with a total cost of $18000

That's who are being priced out.

Call me an old fuddy duddy but I was going to the Monterey Historics in the late 80's through mid nineties as a spectator and to crew in the races. There was a small auction that was started by RM on Friday night. Some attended but the big auction was always in Scottsdale in early January, which I also attended if it I wasn't at CES. The purpose of going to Monterey was of course Pebble Beach and the Historic races which ran Sat and Sun.

The paddocks were full of gearheads, racers, and enthusiasts. People got their hands dirty. I also went to one of the first Concourse Italiani (with my Dino) which was really set up as an alternative to the "wine and cheese" types allowing all kinds of cars that were normally looked down on (Fiats, Alfa's, Lancia's, Lamborghini and particularly Maserati)

Now, it's more about the money and auctions than anything else. From one small auction on Friday its grown to 3 auctions from Thursday to Sunday.

A good idea? I don't think so. The rampant speculation is no different than buying gold or tulips to most who buy them. Someday the madness will stop but not until a lot of people are hurt.

 

I guess I see your point, but I'm still not sure I agree that the majority won't drive these cars. I see the ratio of speculators much less than those that just have incredible amounts of money, and THOSE people to me rarely care if these cars rocket or tank. If you can afford to spend $16.5 million on a car, who cares about adding 2,000 miles, or taking it around Goodwood? Look how those guys drive THOSE cars, and everyone cringes at a battle scar, too bad, so sad, their cars, enjoy them before you die.