I get asked this a lot, so I posted this on the Corvette forum | FerrariChat

I get asked this a lot, so I posted this on the Corvette forum

Discussion in '348/355' started by Bill2, May 26, 2006.

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  1. Bill2

    Bill2 Formula Junior

    Oct 4, 2004
    340
    GA
    I'm kind of a car nut. In the past few years I've owned Acura NSX's(5), Porsche 911 (996), Lotus Elise, Corvette C5 Convertible and Coupe, Ferrari 355 (still have), Factory Five Cobra, Factory Five Spec Racer, Factory Five Coupe (still have), and the C6 Z06 (still have).

    I get asked all of the time which car is better. That's really a trick question, but here's some impressions of the latest production cars. I won't include the FFR products or the C5's.

    Contenders for this write-up:
    C6 Z06
    Acura NSX (hard tops, not targa models)
    Porsche 911 (996)
    Lotus Elise
    Ferrari 355

    Best steering: Lotus Elise
    Worse steering: C6 Z06

    Best power: Corvette C6 Z06
    Worse power: Lotus feels slow, but the NSX is slower

    Best brakes: Lotus Elise with the Z06, 355 and 911 real close
    Worse brakes: Acura NSX

    Best seats for a long trip: C6 Z06
    Worse seats for a long trip: tie Porsche 911 and Lotus Elise

    Best seats for the track: Lotus Elise
    Worse seats for the track: C6 Z06

    Best stereo: C6 Z06
    Worse stereo: Lotus Elise - really, really, really bad.

    Easiest to drive fast in the mountains: Lotus Elise
    Scariest to drive fast in the mountains: C6 Z06 (too much power and runflats)

    Best handling (grip): Tie between C6 Z06 and Lotus Elise
    Worse handling: none, they all handle great

    Best stock exhaust sound: Ferrari 355
    Worse stock exhaust sound: Acura NSX

    Best after-market exhaust: Ferrari 355 Capristo Stage III
    Worse after-market exhaust: None

    Best attention getter: Lotus Elise by a mile
    Worse attention getter: Porsche 911

    Most reliable: C6 Z06 so far
    Most unreliable: Ferrari 355

    Cheapest after-market parts: Lotus Elise and C6 Z06
    Highest priced after-market parts: Ferrari 355

    Easiest to get into: tie Corvette C6 Z06 and Porsche 911
    Worse to get in: Lotus Elise

    Most fun to drive: Lotus Elise
    Least fun to drive: Could their be one that's not fun? The NSX is pretty much the least of this group.

    Best build quality (fit and finish): tie Porsche 911 and Acura NSX
    Worse build quality: tie between Ferrari 355 and Lotus Elise

    Best engineering design: Corvette C6 Z06 by a long mile
    Worse engineering design: Porsche 911

    Best interior materials: Porsche 911
    Worse interior materials: Ferrari 355 (parts are melting and everything is sticky) and Lotus Elise (hard plastics)

    Best smell: Porsche 911
    Worse smell: none, they all smell great in their own way.

    Best paint: Acura NSX
    Worse paint: Lotus Elise

    Most luggage space: Corvette C6 Z06 and Porsche 911
    Worse Luggage space: Ferrari 355 and Lotus Elise

    Best dealer for service: Acura and Porsche are damn good (I haven't had to service the C6 Z06)
    Worse dealer for service: Ferrari

    Best for autocrossing: Lotus Elise
    Worse for autocrossing: Acura NSX

    Cheapest car to take to the track for 3 days (no wrecks), in order:
    Lotus Elise
    Corvette C6 Z06
    Acura NSX
    Porsche 911
    Ferrari 355

    Safest car to take to the track, in order:
    Acura NSX (just don't lift in a corner)
    Lotus Elise (again, don't lift)
    Corvette C6 Z06
    Ferrari 355
    Porsche 911 (really, really don't lift)

    Most expensive to repair body parts, in order:
    Lotus Elise
    Ferrari 355
    Acura NSX
    Porsche 911
    Corvette C6 Z06

    Most expensive to repair mechanical (out of warranty), in order:
    Ferrari 355
    Porsche 911
    Acura NSX
    Corvette C6 Z06
    Lotus Elise

    Cheapest street tires: Lotus Elise
    Most expensive street tires: Corvette C6 Z06

    Cheapest brake pads: Lotus Elise
    Most expensive brake pads: tie Ferrari 355 OEM and C6 Z06

    Best shifter linkage: Acura NSX
    Worse shifter linkage: Lotus Elise

    Best clutch feel: tie C6 Z06 and Ferrari 355
    Worse clutch feel: Porsche 911

    Best A/C: C6 Z06
    Worse A/C: Lotus Elise (really, really bad)

    Least amount of squeaks: C6 Z06
    Most amount of squeaks: Lotus Elise

    Best interior layout: C6 Z06
    Worse interior layout: tie Ferrari 355 (limited storage and weird switches) and Lotus Elise (no storage)

    Best head lights: Porsche 911 (Zenon option)
    Worse head lights: Lotus Elise (they got a DOT exemption)

    Easiest for driveways and bumps: C6 Z06
    Hardest to get over bumps: tie Acura NSX and Ferrari 355

    Easiest to purchase, in order:
    Porsche 911 (walked in, they tossed me the keys and we drove out with the paperwork done in 30 minutes.
    Lotus Elise (Easy to find and has no issues to check on)
    Corvette C6 Z06 (if you don't mind the wait and dealer BS)
    Acura NSX (before buying you have to check them out for a few issues that are known, but this can be done by myself because they are easy to spot).
    Ferrari 355 (so many things to check and you need to know what you are looking for).

    Easiest to sell:
    Corvette C6 Z06 (in demand)
    Acura NSX
    Lotus Elise
    Porsche 911
    Ferrari 355

    When selling, which car can have the most miles? (in order)
    Acura NSX (buyers know they are bullet proof, even with 100,000 miles)
    Corvette C6 Z06 (Look how many C6 Z06's already have over 5k miles on them... these cars can be driven and buyers won' care.)
    Porsche 911 (the buyers don't mind as much as 8,000 miles a year)
    Lotus Elise (too many 1 year old cars with 2,000 miles or less, so if you drive it you will lose money.)
    Ferrari 355 (Don't drive it or they will lose value quickly. Ferrari buyers are weird about miles.)

    Which car is the best value? Corvette C6 Z06

    Which has the best stock wheels? Corvette C6 Z06
    Which car has the worse stock wheels? Acura NSX

    Which car gets by the police the best? Porsche 911
    Which car gets the most attention from the police? Lotus Elise

    Which car will be the most collectible in 30 years?
    Corvette C6 Z06
    Ferrari 355
    Acura NSX
    Lotus Elise
    Porsche 911

    Which car is at the bottom of the deprecation curve?
    Ferrari 355
    Acura NSX (91-93)

    Which car will depreciate the most (%) over 3 years?
    Lotus Elise
    Corvette C6 Z06
    Porsche 911 (996)

    Which car would I most like to drive across the USA? C6 Z06
    Which car would I least like to drive across the USA? Lotus Elise and Ferrari 355

    Best car for your mother to drive? Acura NSX
    Worse car for your mother to drive? Lotus Elise (hard to get in and out)

    Best car to let your father drive? Corvette C6 Z06
    Worse car for your father to drive? Lotus Elise (hard to get in and out)

    Best ride? Acura NSX
    Worse ride? Lotus Elise

    Which car can I work on (shocks, oil changes, sway bars, brakes)? Lotus Elise, Acura NSX, C6 Z06
    Which car should not be touched by me? Porsche 911 or Ferrari 355

    Which car under steers the most? Porsche 911
    Which car over steers the most? Lotus Elise
    Which car is the most neutral? Corvette C6 Z06

    Which car can you see out of the front the best? Acura NSX
    Which car is the worse to see out of the front? C6 Z06

    Which car has the most blind spots? Lotus Elise
    Which car has the least amount of blind spots? Porsche 911

    Which car has the best leather? Porsche 911
    Which car has the worse leather? Ferrari 355 wears the most on the side bolster, but the Lotus feels the cheapest

    Which car has the best driving position? C6 Z06
    Which car has the worse driving position? Porsche 911

    Which has the best steering wheel? Lotus Elise (momo is standard)
    Which has the worse steering wheel? Acura NSX

    - Bill
     
  2. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways
    Good post. You've been doing some driving!
     
  3. chrisx666

    chrisx666 Formula Junior

    Dec 6, 2004
    562
    YorkshireUK
    Full Name:
    Chris B
    "Best attention getter: Lotus Elise by a mile"

    This really shows the difference in markets across the Atlantic, I see about 10 Elises a day on my 20 mile commute.
     
  4. ylshih

    ylshih Shogun Assassin
    Honorary Owner

    Mar 21, 2004
    20,402
    Northern CA
    Full Name:
    Yin
    That's because Lotus kept it out of the US for 7-8 years :)!
     
  5. scott.waldon

    scott.waldon Formula Junior

    Jan 26, 2006
    316
    Sydney, Australia
    Full Name:
    Scott
    Thats a nice little list and has some good info, you should add different things when you think about them
     
  6. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2005
    100,216
    Mount Isa, Australia
    Full Name:
    Pap
    Wow! Good post. Although its your opinion on these cars,its still very informative. Thanks for posting :)
     
  7. pedro.maia

    pedro.maia Karting

    Feb 9, 2006
    95
    Porto - Portugal
    Full Name:
    Pedro Maia
    Fantastic post...

    I would like to know where does the cobra replica stands between those exotic cars...
    I love ferraris... But those fantastic cobra replica are great...

    Pedro Maia
     
  8. chrisx666

    chrisx666 Formula Junior

    Dec 6, 2004
    562
    YorkshireUK
    Full Name:
    Chris B

    Very true. I'm sure Lotus would have loved to import it sooner but the drivetrain was unsuitable. They are not exactly a rich company (owned by Proton of Malaysia) and federalising the Elise was a costly exercise. I'll bet the Elise is perceived as quite expensive is the US as well - used Mk1's start at around £8,000GB here (a new Z06 is £63,000GB for comparison).


    Good interesting post by Bill.
     
  9. BT

    BT F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 21, 2005
    15,291
    FL / GA
    Full Name:
    Bill Tracy
    Nice comparison. Are there any that you regret owning?
    BT
     
  10. Bill2

    Bill2 Formula Junior

    Oct 4, 2004
    340
    GA
    I didn't include the Cobra replicas because they can vary so much because of the build, parts used, etc. For instance, my first Factory Five was built using a donor Mustang engine and parts. It was a great car, but it only cost me $20,000 to build and had used parts.

    The Cobra's get the most attention.

    My Cobra is about as good as the Lotus Elise for autocrossing.

    Here's a funny story. Each year in Ohio the Cobra clubs all get together. They desided to start running autocrosses in 2003. Over 180 Cobra replicas, GT40s, and even some real Cobras came out to run.

    I posted the best times of the day with my donor-built 275 HP Factory Five Cobra. There were some very expensive cars there, so this proves that a well built Factory Five can be really compeitive. Here's the article on my win: http://www.kitcarmag.com/eventcoverage/142_0401_spring/index.html You can see a picture of me and my old Cobra on the left side of the page.

    Here's the funny part. Last year I didn't have a Cobra to take to the event so I asked for permission to take the Lotus Elise. http://dvspringfling.com/sat/images/full/DSC00035.JPG The Lotus was the fastest car of the day, except for a Factory Five Spec Racer on slicks owned by Factory Five's engineer and racer. I drove the Elise to Ohio on street tires and used the same tires for the event and was only a second slower. But I was 3 to 5 seconds faster than the 3rd place car.

    - Bill
     
  11. Bill2

    Bill2 Formula Junior

    Oct 4, 2004
    340
    GA
    None. I love each one for different reasons.

    - Bill
     
  12. Bill2

    Bill2 Formula Junior

    Oct 4, 2004
    340
    GA
    To be fair, I wish I could buy a 430. That would be a better comparision to the new Z06. Cars improve so much each year that it really isn't fair to compare the new Corvette Z06 to my 1995 Ferrari 355. Except that the two cost the same amount of money. OK, maybe it wouldn't be fair to compare a $190,000 car to a $70,000 car?

    - Bill
     
  13. Dr.T348

    Dr.T348 Formula 3

    Jan 8, 2004
    1,599
    Chicago NW Burbs
    Full Name:
    Richard T.
    You are comparing apples to oranges. If you want to compare corvette to Ferrari 355 or even Acura or Porsche 996 the you need to talk about C4 or early C5 Corvette.

    Hands down I would take a C6 Z06 over Acura NSX,Lotus, and probably Porsche 996. It would be a tough call for a 355 vs. C6 Z06, but offer F430 and I would take that in a heart beat. IMHO.
     
  14. 6spdHorse

    6spdHorse Formula Junior

    Mar 30, 2006
    483
    Good point...but as Enzo Ferrari said"Ferrari is not a car,it's a way of life"
     
  15. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,593
    Gates Mills, Ohio
    Full Name:
    Jon
    Great post, although this one surprised me a bit. I see a Corvette on every block and I'm assuming the Z06 will be popular and built in large numbers, so you'll be able to buy one whenever you'd like. It's something that many people can easily afford to keep, unlike a Ferrari.

    I've seen only one F355 this year in San Diego, and two Elises (excluding car shows and dealership visits). In 30 years, a collectible example of a 355 is going to be a rarity. I don't think many people realize that it's already heartbreakingly difficult to find a pristine 308 in 2006, after only 21+ years.

    I think you're right on the 996 -- there are rows of them at used car dealers throughout southern California.
     
  16. pedro.maia

    pedro.maia Karting

    Feb 9, 2006
    95
    Porto - Portugal
    Full Name:
    Pedro Maia

    I had a Pilgrim wich is a british replica.. but it was horrible car...
    Then I almost had a KCC (south Africa Replica) wich was much better.. Donnor parts from jaguar and 302 ford engine, but It was impossible to register it here in Portugal.
    But still love those cars..
    When I reallized that I will not be abble to register the cobra, I bought a 348.
    Cobra Still my dream car.. or a ford GT40 (Replica)
    I love the engine sound...
     
  17. Bill2

    Bill2 Formula Junior

    Oct 4, 2004
    340
    GA
    Neither car is going to make a great collector car. But if you study the current market treads and know the main things that help collector car markets, you would come to the same conclusion.

    First, the F355 is getting a bad reputation for being a money pit. It will only get worse with age. This will make it a tough car to sell when a major service equals 1/3 of the value of a car. And the major service needs to be done every three years. Sorry, but spending 100% of the value of a car on services over 10 years won't make collectors happy. They like cars that don't require a lot of service.

    The Corvette Z06 should be a bull proof car because Corvette's have never been the type of car you have to worry about. I would buy any year of Corvette without a PPI because I could check the car out myself. But I wouldn't touch ANY Ferrari, especially a 355 without a mechanic who knows what he's looking for. Knowing the C6 Z06 will most likely be a bullet proof supercar, the collectors will love knowing they can actually drive it and not worry about spending miles and money on services.

    Second, over 8,000 F355's were built (3,939 GTB - 2,048 GTS - 2,663 Spiders). About 5,500 Z06's are being built per year. If they run for 3 years, it would be 16,500 total. With those numbers, you have to look at the real market for 308's today vs. 427 Corvette's from the 60's and 70's.

    There were over 20,000 1966 and 1967 427 Corvette's made. That is a huge number of cars. Much, much more than a Ferrari Daytona (1,273 coupes). Guess what? It doesn't matter. Perfect 427's are going for over $150,000. That's the price of a #2 Daytona Coupe.

    308's (12,000+ built) are not going for crazy dollars, but 427 Corvette's are breaking records every week, so you could expect the Z06 (427 engine) to follow this tread. Call it crazy, but Americans love the 427 and I'm sure that nothing will change in 30 years.

    Well, read my post. You're not seeing these cars because people are not driving them.

    People with Ferrari's are afraid to drive them because they don't want to depreciate them and they don't want to rack up miles towards expensive services. Let's face it, many Ferrari owners are "saving" their Ferrari for the next owner. Whereas a typical Corvette Z06 will drive it like a Toyota. I know I do.

    As for the Lotus Elise. The car is not comfortable to drive in traffic or around town. The A/C does not work well, it's hard to get in and out of, it will beat you to death, and all SUV's look like they are going to kill you.

    - Bill
     
  18. pistole

    pistole Formula Junior

    Jan 31, 2005
    771
    Malaysia


    I LAUGHED at that !!

    riot.

    cheers.
    .
     
  19. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,942
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    Obviously you should sell the 355. Its the worst of the bunch.
     
  20. J. Salmon

    J. Salmon F1 Rookie
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 27, 2005
    4,367
    VA
    I am currently driving the hell out of my 355 with no plans to ever get rid of it. But the mileage will drop some when the FFR Cobra is done, which should be about 3 weeks. Cannot wait to experience the comparison myself!

    Cheers!

    -J.
     
  21. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

    Oct 29, 2004
    5,379
    NWA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    The 308 and the 355 will probably never be on the same playing field. The 308 and a few models after were still made when Enzo was alive. I believe in the future this will play a important part in Ferrari models and thier value. Also, the 355 is all electronic, where as the 308 is mostly mechanical, and as such will remain much more economical to maintain. It is also my opinion that far less than half of the 308 cars built remain in existence, and possibly only 25-30%.
     
  22. Durpen

    Durpen Karting

    Sep 6, 2005
    109
    South of Boston, USA
    Full Name:
    Kirk N
    Great post FFCobra. I don't intend to be nit picky, but, realistically, there is one fact that you have used that is misleading.
    427 Corvette values. Chevy did build over 20,000, but the number of 427 Corvettes that are worth 150,000 are far fewer. No I don't mean condition as the contributing factor, because like you said, perfect cars are fetching150,000. The only perfect 427 Corvettes that are going for 150,000 are 67 427/435 cars - and even then, convertibles, not coupes. Oh sure, there may be 1 or 2 exceptions... but they are not the rule. How many 67 427/435 cars were built? If I was at home now I could answer that. My guess is around 2,000. There are other 427 covettes that are 150,000 - they are actually much more, specifically the L88s and the ZL1s that were built.
    There have been other Corvettes that were supposed to be worth big money "someday" such as the 78 pace cars and the ZR-1s from the late 80- mid 90s. What are those worth now? Not much.
    The majority of 427vettes sold were low performance versions that in perfect condition are not selling for anywhere near $150,000.
    Just my 2 cents...
     
  23. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,593
    Gates Mills, Ohio
    Full Name:
    Jon
    Interesting post. Overall I think you're right, that neither an F355 or Corvette is a blue chip investment, and that Ferrari owners tend to keep the miles down.

    However, the 355/money pit argument cuts both ways. My point was precisely that very few collectors will buy them, resulting in a rapidly dwindling supply. It was a significant car for Ferrari, despite its issues. If you were a collector in 2026, and you wanted a near-flawless 355, where would you find one?

    Because anyone can afford to buy/maintain a used Corvette, I believe the supply will be higher because there's no financial reason to let the cars languish, unmaintained. Vintage Ferraris are atrociously costly to maintain, and not real practical to drive, but they continue to be very collectible.

    The quantities of both cars are too high for either to be an investment item, but I believe the Corvette will have a very high survival rate among a huge population, while the 355s will deteriorate and become quite rare eventually.

    EDIT: And of course you can drive a Corvette 20,000 miles a year if you want - it's no big deal to rebuild the engine over and over. 355 prices would have to get astronomical, in comparison, to justify THAT rebuild. Better to scrap it and part it out.
     
  24. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

    Oct 29, 2004
    5,379
    NWA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    There must have been a lot of hash in the bong when someone was stupid enough to pay $150K for a Vette and pass on a Daytona. I remember drooling as a kid looking at brand new 427 and 454 Vettes down at the Chevy dealer. But $150K ??? Unbelievable. Its about as sophisticated as a 64 Chevy Pickup truck frame with a Kelmark GT body.
     
  25. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways
    It's the Baby Boomers. The old guys are finally beginning to retire, going to auctions, and then bidding up their childhood dream cars to unreal heights.
     

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