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I have scanned Fiorano times: Schumi vs Massa & Enzo vs. 430 Scuderia

Discussion in 'F1' started by DriveAfterDark, Nov 1, 2007.

  1. DriveAfterDark

    DriveAfterDark F1 Veteran

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    #1 DriveAfterDark, Nov 1, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Please see attachment.


    Looking at Schumacher in his 3 years old F2004 and Massa's F2007, I bow my head in respect for Mr. Schumacher.

    Interesting to see how they set the Scuderia's time to the exact same as the Enzo. Am I the only one who believe the Scuderia might have run faster than the Enzo and they just didn't want to "embarass" the supercar owners or something like that??


    Pretty interesting.
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  3. kizdan

    kizdan F1 Veteran

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    Thanks for sharing.

    I find it interesting that the 360 Stradale is as fast as a 599 in lap times. Very impressive for the Stradale.

    It's also interesting that an F1 car from '73 still absolutely blows away the fastest and most modern road car, like the Enzo, or the FXX.
     
  4. greghurst

    greghurst Formula Junior

    Nov 26, 2003
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    I was wondering the same thing myself the other day when I heard on another forum that the Scud missile laps in EXACTLY the same time as the Enzo
     
  5. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    It is very difficult to compare these times: While technology has progressed and newer cars are getting faster on average, regulations have a huge impact as well. FIA is limiting the amount of downforce every year, so it could very well be, that a 2004 car was faster on average than a 2007 car. You would have to compare with fastest laps of other tracks from those years to get a definitive answer. I'm too lazy for that. :)

    Interesting list and yes, I believe some of these times are "tweaked" for marketing reasons.
     
  6. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

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    well, the F2004 was a unrestricted V10. the F2007 19k restricted V8. can't be compared IMO, but great find anyways. Thanks!
     
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  8. Ambassiatore

    Ambassiatore Formula Junior

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    ...I regularly compared times between luca badoer, the Italian test driver, Schumi and Massa around the fiorano track on testings...and even though they were official track times, Schumi was always ahead like .3 or even .4 on Massa, but Luca Badoer was only .1 adrift Massa...

    nowdays same differences keep the same rate, Kimmi overpasses Massa by .1 or .2, and Then Massa is faster tahn Kimmi by .1 or .2...And Luca Badoer times are Trailing only by .1... maybe .2

    So on equal cars Michael times seemed a bit faster...but I dont know if he was the only one that was "suppoused" to be on top of the time sheets...

    Im with andreas on the Marketing order...both Michael, and special vehicles times can be a little pumped up...
     
  9. Wolfgang5150

    Wolfgang5150 F1 Rookie

    Oct 31, 2003
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    Here's a stastic I love. While we all know the FXX is an absolute beast - it laps Fiorano 18 seconds slower than the F2007. That shows you what friggin missiles the F1 cars are.
    I tell everyone - if you've never seen or heard an F1 car up close, driven in anger; you can't comprehend how fast, and incredibly loud they are. (And how the ground shakes as they approach)...............
    Kevin S.
    Orchard Park, NY
     
  10. Ambassiatore

    Ambassiatore Formula Junior

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    +1...sound is just unreal...my eyes get all wet when I listen to that blow by...Ive felt scared sometimes...
     
  11. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    +1

    And then there are folks who seriously think other forms of racing hold any water to F1. A F1 car obliterates any race car around a track.
     
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  13. speedy_sam

    speedy_sam F1 Veteran

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    #10 speedy_sam, Nov 1, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Using the data above, I did a comparison of laptime vs hp to figure out how much of that extra hp translated itself into laptime improvement.

    I took the 328 as the benchmark and computed delta laptimes and delta horsepower (Euro figures) for each Ferrari model against the 328. Then I computed the Delta laptime/hp, i.e. the seconds gained in Fiorano for every 1 hp increase over the 328.

    Example: take the 360 Modena

    360 Modena:
    Bhp = 400
    Delta Bhp over 328: 130 (Euro 328 has 370 bhp)
    Delta laptime: 14 seconds

    Delta laptime/bhp = 0.108 (=14/130)


    Looks like the 348 is the best bang for the buck :D :D with the CS coming in second place. :)
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  14. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Interesting and not that surprising: I have driven many of the V8 Ferraris over the years and found the gap from a 328 to a 348 as the most significant in the series. They all get better, but the deltas of improvements are smaller.
     
  15. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
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    what magazine is that ?
     
  16. Kami

    Kami Formula Junior

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    +10. At the '06 USGP during qualifying, I was walking to one of the porti-johns that were set up right inside turn 8. I'm not sure what car it was, but the over-run from the engines while they were downshifting was slamming the door to all of the bathrooms. These cars are absolute marvels of engineering.
     
  17. Kami

    Kami Formula Junior

    Nov 28, 2006
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    Why do they have the year next to the f50 time as '86?
     
  18. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Typo. Probably '96.
     
  19. DriveAfterDark

    DriveAfterDark F1 Veteran

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    evo (British)

    Best mag in the world.
     
  20. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

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    the screams of an F1 engine is indeed amazing. at the start of the Malaysian GP, when the 5 lights are lighting up, and when 22 cars revs it up....bloody hell, it sounds like the end of the world..
     
  21. ItaliaF1

    ItaliaF1 F1 Rookie

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    +1

    If Ferrari would have been allowed to further develop the F2007 without any aerodynamic or power limitations(V8), I have no doubt in my mind that Massa or Kimi would have beaten Schumi's old time.
     
  22. 134282

    134282 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Either that, or the fudged the Scuderia's time to be the same as the Enzo's. In that list, cars are first listed by time; if two cars share the same time, then they are listed chronologically - except for the 430 Scuderia and the Enzo. Despite being five years newer, the Scuderia is listed first, above the Enzo, which is inconsistent with the rest of the list. It's a total advertising push for the Scuderia.


    By the way, what is a "360 Challenge Stradale"...? Is that some unknown iteration of the Challenge Stradale...? Because the factory never made a "360 Challenge Stradale". I can't believe magazines still make that mistake. Which rag was this, anyway...?
     
  23. Condor Man

    Condor Man F1 Rookie

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    #20 Condor Man, Nov 2, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  24. Ferrari250GTO

    Ferrari250GTO Formula 3

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    3 year old F1 car = faster than 2007
     
  25. Simon

    Simon Moderator
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    Amazing, put a good driver in a 328 and Schummi would cross the line in his F1 more or less at the same time, but 1 lap ahead :D
     
  26. DriveAfterDark

    DriveAfterDark F1 Veteran

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    I know, I know. But in case of "Challenge Stradale" the average joe wouldn't get it. Perhaps that's why they wrote it like this... Anyway, only die hard Ferrari fans know this type of stuff. Even in here people continue to say "360 Challenge Stradale" and "Ferrari F430 Scuderia" :)
     
  27. Malfark

    Malfark F1 Veteran

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    2 laps if I was driving Simon!! ;-) MARK
     
  28. F430GT

    F430GT Formula 3

    Sep 29, 2005
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    Very nice information.

    However, it must be pointed out that both the F430 Scuderia and F360 Stradale come with DOT race compound tires, while the Enzo/599/F430 use conventional street tires. I have tested one of the best street tires (Michelin PS2) and the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup (race tire), and the Cup gives a 1 second faster lap on a 60 secs course.

    The times from the FXX are due to racing slicks. An Enzo on the same slicks would drop at least 3 seconds at Fiorano.

    I think that a regular F430 with the Pirelli Corsa race tires from the Stradale/Scuderia would drop another 1.3 secs at Fiorano.
     

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