I Predicted!!! Manual Conversions < F1

if you ever come to ny let me know, you can drive mine.

 

you are entitled to your opinion even though its unsubstantiated

 

the gated scud is better than my cgt

 

I've told this story many, many times. @malcolmb drove his Daytona from California to New Orleans and entered it in a show without cleaning the bugs off. I told myself, I need to met this guy. That was the start of a beautiful friendship.

 

been there, done that. Stuck in the middle of a major road because a 3 cent part failed (and cost $9000 to replace). Bright red striped Ferrari blocking the turn lane that thankfully was there as it died suddenly. Funny part is I knew exactly 1 person in that part of town and darn if she didn't drive by a few minutes later and offer to drive us home after the tow.

Anyways, after the CS and a Maser Gransport, I've had enough F1. I liked them...when they worked (but they both didn't at times). But the idea of either manual in those cars without the bolted on hydraulics sounds great to me.

But I am not in the car driving game for making money, so the specific thread topic is unimportant and boring to me. The cars are what is interesting. And a CS without the computer shifting via hydraulics sounds very interesting to me. (same as the Scud manual does)

 

And Ferrari's market told them very pointedly there was no money in manuals (given the low volumes circa 2009, likely not even enough to pay back the certification costs). We the buyers (well, not me, buying a factory new Ferrari was never my fate) told them we didn't want their manual shift cars.

 

I have a factory manual 360 Modena with a sunroof. Very rare car. Nothing after the 458 is worth having, as far as I'm concerned.

No problem with a 612 conversion, if I find one though. I just want the experience. Don't care about investment potential.

 

Yes indeed...try pushing a 612 stuck in 6th gear!

I think to drive to a manual conversion would be great but from a resale point of view probably not so much, again assuming the conversion was niggle free and there were not fundamental issues which saw the car in the workshop every other week.

 

Hi Tom, I'm the one who converted and repainted the 612 that was on BAT, the same car that inspired this thread. We used to talk on the Professional forum. The gentleman who owns this converted 612 told me about this thread and I've been reading through it.

Everybody has a right to their own opinions, right? The people who doubt how well our converted cars drive (particularly the 599s) should try one out before making judgements, however.

Anyway, I have not been able to figure out how to send a private message so I'll do it on the forum. If you don't mind, I would love to see your list of Audi and Lamborghini parts you offered to scott98 if that's possible.

Thank you in advance.

 

Well said, fact is I'm ignorant about the subject. I can only assume that for cars that had a 6 speed variant already, it's a matter of just replacing with factory spec parts. Beyond that, i have no clue.

 

To illustrate why buyers might be put off by conversions, consider this BaT listing. Cavet: I know nothing about this car. I'm using it as an example.

You'll notice someone hung a turbo on this Cayman. Frankly, it's not a bad idea seeing how Porsche kept the numbers down on the Caymans. But would you buy this car sight unseen? Or maybe a better way to say it is would you pay more for this car because it has been hot rodded?

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2008-porsche-cayman-s-83/

 

In all fairness, to me, messing with the engine, like adding a turbo, is quite a bit more advanced than removing the F1 system and replacing it with factory like or actual OEM parts. The converted cars aren't technically that different than the OEM ones.

Plus, you're talking Porsche...

 

this is what i was asking you about in the thread specific to 430 conversions - i would like to know if you can improve my tranny ecu even if i leave it as an F1?

 

Not a problem Will..I will print of the list tomorrow and post it here for those who are interested. I hope all is well..good to hear from you again..

 

i met him and his 275gtb in genoa before we all got on the ferry to palermo.
and then we did the giro and targa together - he drove that car all over sicily, and then all over italy.
ditto - lifelong ferrari friend.

 

For the curious, here's a photo of the parts needed to convert an F1 612 to gated six. Only the two long shifter rods and the two rubber buffers (the bits with the bronze nuts) are OEM Ferrari. The shifter tower and its internals, the actuator plate and its internals, and the clutch pedal are aftermarket. The master cylinder is second hand. The installation requires the removal of both front seats, to get at the two engine control units. These will be re-flashed courtesy of our ECU whisperer, @360trev. Also required is the installation of the clutch pedal and master cylinder (the hanger comes from the factory with provision for a clutch pedal), and the most daunting part, the removal of the drivetrain from the engine block to the axles. Really not a complicated job -- just moving around a few bulky parts --and one that can readily be reversed. Total cost, including a collection of OEM hardware not pictured, was $18,000.

Also in the photo are an HGT rear sway bar and some 599 mass air flow sensors, that are also going in the car.

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I love cars! I don't care what you do to your car. Do what makes you happy! I love seeing all kinds of mods and tunes. Don't mod it either, it doesn't matter to me, but most importantly, DRIVE IT!!! Worrying about resale is for the birds. Cars arent sacred my friends, only life is!

All these exclamation points and caps make me feel like a boomer, which is cool too nothing wrong with that.

 

Everything is good here Tom. Busy as hell. Hope all is well with you also and yeah, nice talking with you again!

We work on a lot less Lamborghinis than we used to. We generally like Ferraris and their owners better but converting an E-gear car to manual shift sounds like a fun project.

Thanks for the positive reply. I'm looking forward to seeing your parts list!

 

Hi will..here is a current estimate we have running for the third car. We are within 2 or 3k of the total..we always leave a but one the table for incidentals.. I will type out the part numbers later..but it's a mishmash of Audi and Lambo parts. All is readily available through both dealer networks.
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360's and 430's are the perfect cars to convert as it is extremely easy and the same as it left the factory. It also greatly improves the driving experience IMO as the old F1 system is really, really bad by today's standards.

Ferrari guys are just very, very uptight about any conversions/aftermarket work. So much so that many who do the conversion would rather use the cheap, poorly cast transmission cable bracket instead of one CNC cut out of 6061.

When I was helping do these we bought up every original factory part we could find and reverse engineered them.

 

One thing that's going to haunt the conversions is the quality issue. So many are "reverse engineering" the parts and they're using different methods, different materials, different techniques, different skill levels and the result is the quality of the conversions can vary greatly. As time tolls, these quality differences will put a damper on the enthusiasm of buyers.

Right now, sales of converted cars don't appear to have a cost difference from stock F1's that exceed the cost of the conversion. In the future, the F1 stock cars will likely eclipse the value of converted cars and people will be buying converted cars and converting them back to stock. So don't dispose of your F1 parts if you do a conversion. You might regret it later.

That said, if I could locate an inexpensive F1 car with a malfunctioning system, one with a broken title and a lot of miles, I would convert it to gated in a heartbeat.

 

About that "Quality" Issue: Part A vs Part B......

 

If I may ask what parts do you think are difficult to maintain the factory quality or better? There really isn’t that much to it. Pretty standard machining and engineering.

 

The shift turrets and and gear selectors from brogenville are all accurately CNC carved from solid billets, not die-cast like OEM. Billet parts are much stronger than cast. It's all top quality stuff.