yes but don't you guys think the 360 is a good enough performer for you? the car I owned before the modena was faster on the track.. but I found the Modena more pleasureable to drive.. For instance I am not a hard enough driver/or good enough at the moment, to take a 360 to it's 10/10th limits at the track.. so if a 400hp 4.2 0-60 car is enough does the 490hp/3.8 0-60 of the 430 really make that much of a difference to you guys? I mean at that point both cars are considered "very fast" and likely on the track only a very skilled driver pushing 10/10ths will notice the difference.. On track days I see cars with far less technology and performance consistently post better times than other cars that are not being pushed to their limits.. I certainly take it easy when I go for the most part.. I guess what I am saying is that when I floor the 360 and apex into turns with it.. the feeling and rush of acceleration is very similar to the 430 doing the same activity.. so besides numbers on paper, is the performance really that drastic from a "Seat of your pants" perspective?
When I said performance I should have clarified that I mean how it drives as a whole. You're right, as far as out and out speed is concerned, who needs more than a 360, but it's just the way a car drives over all that's of utmost importance to me and will always come before looks. And the F430 just goes through the twisty bits so much better than the 360 (not that the 360 is not good, mind you). As long as the figures are decent enough, then for me a sports car is all (and I mean ALL!) about how it feels when you push it really hard. It's great if they look good too, but that will always be secondary. Besides, if I was buying on looks I'd be driving an Aston!
But you gotta like the Scud. for what it is and the performance to match the Enzo numbers any updates on track time on the 458 ????
I agree that the proportions of the 246/308/328 are much nicer than the modern cars, but safety regs (air bags, pedestrian safety, windscreen clearance, etc.) and aerodynamics limit what designers can do now. Modern buyers also want more luxury, and that means a bigger cockpit. Given all this, I think you have to draw a line after those cars, a lot like a Jag E-Type, Merc 300SL or Porsche Speedster, and judge modern cars by modern standards. The 458 is IMHO a much better interpretation of the modern design language than we've seen recently. Specifically, the 360/F430 look bloated, especially over the rear wheels, which are made to look like piano casters under all the bulk. The 458 is more graceful there. The front looks a little insectoid, but if it has a flaw it's that it borrows overmuch from Lamborghini's design. It is better than the old ox-yoke of the 360, and infinitely better than the Enzo schnoz. Also, I disagree with you on the 'retro'. I think Pininfarina overdosed on retro cues for the California and 599, neither of which looks like much to me. The 458 picks up bits of the recent Enzo, but it is a far handsomer car. The low, long and wide back end looks intriguing in photos and probably will be even better in person. That may be my favorite part of it.
Sadly, I agree. That Aston V8 Vantage is a stunner, right next to the Alfa 8C. But the 458 feels like a big step in the right direction.
Ferrari's need to be judged in 3 dimensions. I doubt you have seen a 458 in person. However if you feel the need to reach a decision on the car and do not like it than do not buy one. Was there really a need to waste everyone's time and F-chats server space for this thread. There are about a hand full, or less of people on this forum who have a good understanding of design.
Easy with the insults amigo.. design is subjective and we are all entitled to our opinions.. The point some of us are making is that certain cars look good on posters, and do not need to be seen in the flesh to fully appreciate.. astons, lambo's, and ferrari's can usually look good both in the flesh and in pictures.. Some of us are of the opinion that the 458 doesnt look good in photos, you argue that it must be seen in the flesh and photos are not of much value.. but how does that explain ferrari's that are poster cars (testarossa, f40)?
You may mistaken the back of the new vette to be Ferrari like but not the other way around. The twin tail lights on a Ferrari is classic and they took it away. Funny, Ferrari did a survey which I participated and asked what tail light config was more appealing. Without a pause I answered "the twin tail light" . I guess they didn't listen to me... The 360 has some styling cues from the past such as the 355 rear tail lights and the front lights remind me of the Dino, and that is why I love my 360, cause although a modern Ferrari( even after 10 yrs), it's still got some classic flares that define what Ferrari is . Everything after that, kind of lost on me. I think design firms are battling against heavy industry regulations and these (the new models) are the consequeneces. I agree with the comment on the 911. Porsche never gave on their basis of design, they just improved on it. Good on them for having stuck to their guns. Maserati otoh, has got some seriously beautiful cars right now. I test drove both the QP and the GT "S' and I was just in awe of their beauty. Very sensual lines. The GT "S" makes me shiver for not only it's looks but when you start her up , she becomes a beast. That engine is nothing short of spectacular mated to the MC shift. It is just riveting... I want one. Sorry if I went off... I just love cars that stir my soul...I need deeper pockets psorella
ouch, thats a low blow! great point, i definitely agree that the 599 looks like a corvette. i kinda disagree with the lights though. vettes always had the twin lights and i never thought that the Ferrari's taillights looked like the vettes. probably because of the size difference. but as far as the front lights are concerned the shape really isnt a factor for aerodynamics if its flush with the body. i think Ferrari is deliberately trying to capitalize on a design that worked for Lamborghini. no doubt, but this is an appropriate place to give an opinion. i really liked the 360/430 in pics and in person, but when my 328 was parked next to a 430 i couldnt get over how much bigger and bloated the 430 looked in comparison. it changed my opinion of the car(from a design perspective). nothing wrong with comparing old to new. Ferrari has a lot to live up to and there is a reason why the tired, old 308 is still Ferrari's most recognizable car!! i believe in the 'k.i.s.s. rule' and the philosophy of 'if it aint broke, don't fix it' Ferrari doesnt have to redesign an entire car everytime they increase displacement a few cubic inches but thats just my opinion if performance is first you'd be much smarter to spend your money somewhere other than Ferrari's 458 gallardo! within Ferrari or without Ferrari tell that to Porsche, they've found a way to update without taking away from the soul of their beloved 911, every bit an icon as any car we can name. haha, i never meant to imply that the 458 looks retro, it doesnt. i was talking about other recent pininfarina designs like the 550, 575, 612, Cali, etc. i dont nessesarrily think that the 8 series has been going in the right direction, but it never went backwards! nobody here asked you to waste YOUR time. keep drinking the Kool Aid! regulations on designers have been tough since the insurance and oil companies took control of the industry in the 70's. in the 70's & 80's sports/exotic cars were the **** as far as design, but emissions reg. strangled those cars. in the 90's, manufacturers found solutions. but now designers should anticipated stricter safety and emission regs, and design forward. do you think there is a 'green' Ferrari in the works?
I've driven all the alternatives to the 430 and none are as nice to drive. Sure, some are faster, maybe corner harder or do any number of tangible things better (and if it were just by the numbers you could save yourself 70 grand and get a Nissan GT-R). There are plenty of fine cars to choose from. But none have the 'feel' when you're hammering it hard.
gotta agree. my turbo buick is without a doubt more powerful than my Ferrari(at least for now), but the feel is definitely NOT the same.
I think Ferrari did a good job with the 458. I like the throwback of the F40 three pipe center exhuast, and I think that might be telling us something. I guess we'll find out shortly... Jim
The video shots of the car moving on the track look pretty good actually ... maybe its growing on me ....
Man you went overboard here. I don't like the front angle of the official picture of the 458 but to claim Ferrari is "copying" Lamborghini is ridiculous and down right laughable. The Gallardo is nothing but a rip off of the Enzo in my book. Lamborghini has been trying to copy and mimmick Ferrari for decades and you said it yourself. Look at their design. They've been rehashing and evolving 1 car for almost 40 years the Countach. Look what they'll be doing in Frankfurt. Another silly incarnation of the Murcielago. A Reventon with no top. The 458 isn't perfect from every angle but at least its a fresh new design with fresh new technology.
Your reply was as "ridiculous and down right laughable" as the post you were answering. No, Lamborghini are not copying Ferrari.
What? My friend you are wrong the Lamborghini does copy Ferrari. The perfect example is the Gallardo a car made to compete with the 360. Hell it even has the clear rear deck-lid. Now Lambo is coming out with the Balboni edition. A way to compete with the 430 Scuderia. Do not get me wrong I have no problem with Lamborghini, but they definitely are watching what Ferrari is doing. All of this competition make these car makers stronger. One thing is for sure Ferrari is the benchmark.
