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ID? My very old Ferrari..

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by 1oldf, Dec 25, 2007.

  1. 1oldf

    1oldf Karting

    Dec 25, 2007
    86
    Whittier, Calif.
    Full Name:
    George Engelage
    Solofast, well done..........
     
  2. 1oldf

    1oldf Karting

    Dec 25, 2007
    86
    Whittier, Calif.
    Full Name:
    George Engelage
    Someone out there must have the key piece to this puzzle. M.M.?? or who? Could there be an unknown 340 America? We continue.....................................................
     
  3. CMY

    CMY F1 Veteran

    Oct 15, 2004
    9,915
    Redondo Beach, CA
    Full Name:
    Chris
    Marcel, the Ferrari savant, will have the answer.

    Can someone please post some obscure (but incorrect information) so that he'll be compelled to post? Seems to work like a charm most of the time. :D
     
  4. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
    Consultant

    Nov 11, 2003
    3,232
    Be very careful when making conclusions based on general shape as appears in photographs! Bonnet corners over a 3D-shape are very difficult to judge, as are round shapes. See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UirpkTAq3uY

    I remember a discussion where different heights of GTO bonnet bulges were discussed, until somebody noticed that the photos used as example were from the same car in the same race ;o)

    I however think that George might be up to something with the engine compartment photos.
     
  5. velocetwo

    velocetwo F1 World Champ

    Dec 11, 2006
    12,461
    Left Coast
    +1 it's very easy for your mind to see what it wants. The one car with the light color hood creats a optical Illusion it does not allow your eye to follow the full radius of the hood and body.
     
  6. 1oldf

    1oldf Karting

    Dec 25, 2007
    86
    Whittier, Calif.
    Full Name:
    George Engelage
    By looking at the enlarged photos of the engine bays of 0118 and my car you find many differences such as the bonnet latches by my hand and the wire looms along the left side of the engine bay plus a small light on the left side of 0118's motor. As mentioned the louvers on my car seem to be located higher up toward the top of the left front fender. The more detailed inspections of 0118,0120,0124 seem to say my Ferrari was not one of these. The only constant throughout are the tonneau snaps on 0118 from start to finish, the same as my car.............
     
  7. wetpet

    wetpet F1 World Champ
    BANNED

    May 3, 2006
    10,151
    a mystery....
     
  8. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
    Consultant

    Nov 11, 2003
    3,232
    How did you eliminate 0124A? I think the car and the engine bay look pretty much the same. Best wishes, Kare
     
  9. ClassicFerrari

    ClassicFerrari F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 7, 2004
    16,798
    Toronto
    Full Name:
    Vasco
    You don't say? :)
     
  10. Christian.Fr

    Christian.Fr Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 9, 2005
    20,211
    Full Name:
    Christian.Fr
    what about Massini idea? does anyone talk to him about this thread in Cavallino classic last january.
    incredible that this enigme wasn t resolve during such time.
     
  11. Chicane

    Chicane F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Jan 17, 2007
    2,869
    Funkytown
    Full Name:
    Dirk Diggler
    +2. Different camera's, different lenses, different light hitting the cars...opticals can easily make an object appear more "rounded" or "squared". You are better off looking at mechanicals or other fixed points on the car to use to compare.
     
  12. Horsefly

    Horsefly F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 14, 2002
    6,929
    As I mentioned earlier, the silence from any number of people may be deliberate. Suppose somebody knows exactly where the car is located and have been plotting and planning a possilbe acquisition for years. The last thing they would want is a bunch of "talk" about the car to spoil their deal in the making. They're not about to participate in any intenet debate that would let the cat out of the bag.
     
  13. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
    Consultant

    Nov 11, 2003
    3,232
    Life and universe and everyting in a nut shell; some people are praying for for a savior and others see things that don't exist. Religion and paranoia. This is too Freudian to be true. Time to let go ;op
     
  14. 1oldf

    1oldf Karting

    Dec 25, 2007
    86
    Whittier, Calif.
    Full Name:
    George Engelage
    0124A never had tonneau snaps. 0118 had them from the start. 0124A always had a raised windscreen mounting base. Later photos of 0118 had no w.s. base. After all this information from all sources who should really know I conclude that we have THREE answers: 0118A, 0124A, or 0000A???? The minuses outweigh the pluses.....................................? George
     
  15. pastmaster

    pastmaster Formula Junior

    Feb 5, 2006
    875
    Alma, Michigan USA
    George, This is the stuff that separates the men from the boy's. Patience, my friend. The answer will be forthcoming, soon. The Spring events and meets, will be in a few months, and the answer maybe, will be from a source, that has not been involved, as of yet.

    Marcel Massini, when he gets involved, will take this as far as humanly possible. Then again, the current owner may be reading all of this, and just doesn't want to get involved, for whatever reason. You may get a PM from him, and let you know, the whole story. Maybe, maybe not. Quite a Christmas Present, you gave everyone this year. I hope things will be finished by next Christmas. :) There is an answer to this Mystery.

    Ciao...Paolo
     
  16. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
    Consultant

    Nov 11, 2003
    3,232
    Never say never. Tonneau snaps are easily added/removed. Same goes for that windshield; many owners don't really care for that, so they may have traded hands (cars) separately. These are leads that don't qualify as absolute proof. With a gap of a decade here and there almost anything is possible. BTW, are you 100% sure that the car came from Italy and wasn't just stored in harbor with cars being imported?
     
  17. 1oldf

    1oldf Karting

    Dec 25, 2007
    86
    Whittier, Calif.
    Full Name:
    George Engelage
    To the best of my knowledge I picked the car up at the harbor after it was unloaded from the boat from Italy. If it was 0124 and was sent to Italy by Universal Motors in 1956 with a broken rod to be repaired then somehow Vernola got a hold of it, that might work. Vernola would have had to see to the Americanizing of it...ex. add the w.s. the tail lights, side emblems, chrome rocker moldings, tonneau etc. then ship it to me? It's possible but each possibility I think of is hard to fathom................??
     
  18. 1oldf

    1oldf Karting

    Dec 25, 2007
    86
    Whittier, Calif.
    Full Name:
    George Engelage
    It's possible that I sold this Ferrari to Jim Wilcox who lived in Whittier, Ca. and who was the CEO of S.R. Bowen Oil Tool Co. Santa Fe Springs, Ca. Vague memories are returning. If this rings any bells with anyone please let us know. Jim also bought from me a 250GT Farina I think 1957 cpe. Possibly this name will bring more info. to the investigation........? George
     
  19. pastmaster

    pastmaster Formula Junior

    Feb 5, 2006
    875
    Alma, Michigan USA
    George, Where is your friend Vernola? I don't remember reading anything about his current situation and life? Is he still with us, in Italy or America? His recallections would add more information. By his absence in this discussion, I presume he is no longer with us.

    Maybe your remembering Jim Wilcox, will open a door, that will solve this interesting mystery. This is becoming like Masterpiece Theater, on PBS. :)

    Ciao...Paolo
     
  20. 1oldf

    1oldf Karting

    Dec 25, 2007
    86
    Whittier, Calif.
    Full Name:
    George Engelage
    If Michaele Vernola is alive and well I would hope that thru some miracle of fate he could respond to our questions. I have no clue as to his whereabouts or if he is still with us. Our quest is still alive and hopefully some additional information will be forthcoming...............................
     
  21. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2002
    5,944
    Milton, Wash.
    Full Name:
    Jeff B.
    George: Do you happen to remember how you came into contact with Mr. Vernola? Was it through an advertisement (R&T?), or word of mouth, or a third party, or??? How did you learn of his cars for sale in Italy?
     
  22. 1oldf

    1oldf Karting

    Dec 25, 2007
    86
    Whittier, Calif.
    Full Name:
    George Engelage
    In those years I belonged to the Long Beach MG Club in So. Cal. A member put me in contact with M. Vernola and we then started our own Grey Market activities. Long time ago, but great fun...............
     
  23. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2002
    5,944
    Milton, Wash.
    Full Name:
    Jeff B.
    Interesting - I never would have guessed there was a connection through an MG club!

    I haven't yet actually scanned the old magazines for ads placed by Mr. Vernola, I've been looking for Ferrari ads in California that MIGHT turn out to have been your car. I'll check for Vernola's ads, concentrating on late '56 and early '57, and see if anything pops up that may provide more details.

    I take it that all of your personal records from these years are long gone (bill of sale, shipping orders, customs copies, etc.).
     
  24. 1oldf

    1oldf Karting

    Dec 25, 2007
    86
    Whittier, Calif.
    Full Name:
    George Engelage
    No records, too many years, sorry.
     
  25. Ed Niles

    Ed Niles Formula 3
    Honorary

    Sep 7, 2004
    2,434
    West Hills, CA
    Full Name:
    Edwin K. Niles
    I doubt that Mike Vernola is still around. I used to correspond w/him in the 60's, and I had the impression that he was at least as old as I, which would put him in his 80's. The LB MG Club was not just for MG's---it supplied the corner marshals for all the sports car racing in SoCal for many years. Did we flag together, George? I flagged from the mid-50's at every SoCal venue from Torrey Pines to Santa Maria, rarely missing a race.

    I don't see your guy's name in my serial no. book. But for 0124A I have Joe Newton and Bob Ganjemi as early owners. Does either of these ring a bell?
     

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