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ID? My very old Ferrari..

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by 1oldf, Dec 25, 2007.

  1. 1oldf

    1oldf Karting

    Dec 25, 2007
    86
    Whittier, Calif.
    Full Name:
    George Engelage
    Thanks again Terry for the reply. If you have any photos of 0124A when you had her, it would be interesting to compare to my old photos. Thanks George
     
  2. TexasMike

    TexasMike F1 Veteran

    Feb 17, 2005
    9,929
    Austin, Texas
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    Michael C
    Excellent thread!!
     
  3. SonomaRik

    SonomaRik F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 15, 2006
    6,699
    Sonoma, CA
    wow!
     
  4. CMY

    CMY F1 Veteran

    Oct 15, 2004
    9,915
    Redondo Beach, CA
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    Chris
    Beautiful thread.. not only do we have one former owner, but two. Would've never guessed!
     
  5. Terry Buffum

    Terry Buffum Rookie

    Jun 29, 2008
    4
    Bend, Oregon, USA
    Full Name:
    Terrill E. Buffum
    Although a bit off topic, since the photos of 0169 were posted, I thought I'd add a bit about that car - also obtained by me from Bob Gangemi. It had a 250 GT engine in it at the time. I located the original engine, rebuilt, about a mile from the home we had moved out of a year earlier. The man with the engine intended to install it in a GTO replica based on at 240Z. I paid him cash, reinstalled the engine, and later sold the 2250GT engine - which went into a pseudo GTO/240Z!

    0169 has been with Steven Swig for many years. It is a single carburetor engine, five speed. Although most Ghia bodies seem to be 2 + 2, this one has no provision for back seat. Really a nice little car!
     
  6. Ed Niles

    Ed Niles Formula 3
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    Sep 7, 2004
    2,434
    West Hills, CA
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    Edwin K. Niles
    Yes, and I can remember when you owned it, and taking that picture. Can't remember what happened 2 days ago, however!
     
  7. Boudewijn

    Boudewijn Moderator
    Moderator

    May 15, 2003
    4,113
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    Boudewijn Berkhoff
    I'm sorry to hear that Ed!
     
  8. 1oldf

    1oldf Karting

    Dec 25, 2007
    86
    Whittier, Calif.
    Full Name:
    George Engelage
    Now that M.M. has returned, it would be wonderful to have his comments on our lengthy thread. Thanking him in advance........George
     
  9. SonomaRik

    SonomaRik F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 15, 2006
    6,699
    Sonoma, CA
    this is going to be good
     
  10. ferrarip4

    ferrarip4 Formula 3

    May 8, 2008
    1,208
    Sydney, Australia
    Full Name:
    Chanh Lê Huy
    Winner of the best mystery thread ever!
     
  11. pastmaster

    pastmaster Formula Junior

    Feb 5, 2006
    875
    Alma, Michigan USA
    YES! This is a great thread. It reads like a Classical Mystery. What will happen next?

    Carry on Men. :D

    Ciao...Paolo
     
  12. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Mar 2, 2005
    13,525
    #337 Marcel Massini, Jul 31, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    George:
    Lack of time has prevented me from replying earlier (I receive 150+ emails every single day....). Today I finally found a few hours to go through this interesting thread. I fully agree with the conclusion that your car was 0124 A. In the second half of the 1950s Italian Michele Vernola also brokered/sold cars that were physically already in California. Among the cars he sold was also 0354 MM, a 250 MM Berlinetta Pinin Farina. I have about 30 letters from Vernola in my files. Vernola used to live at Via Zuretti 33 in Milan, but later moved to Valenzano, Bari, in Southern Italy.

    Some people have asked about the whereabouts of 0118 A. It belongs since 11 years to an Asian collector. I recently inspected the car. It is unrestored and still wears the old yellow Violati/Maranello Rosso collection stickers on the fenders. It also is still fitted with the 365 GT 2+2 engine #11787 GT (internal engine #A 496). However, the original engine 0118 A is also WITH the owner but not installed in the car. The internal engine number of 0118 A is "2 A". The gearbox of 0118 A is stamped "104" and "12 D" and "9/33". The data plate (chassis badge) on the firewall is a poor reproduction and not authentic. All gauges are incorrect and Borranis are wrong. Windscreen pedestal is missing. Carrozzeria Touring body badge is missing (should be "35XX"). Below are photos.

    Marcel Massini
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  13. ClassicFerrari

    ClassicFerrari F1 World Champ
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    Jan 7, 2004
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    Vasco
    Man, she still looks great! :D
     
  14. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Mar 2, 2005
    13,525
    #339 Marcel Massini, Jul 31, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  15. JazzyO

    JazzyO F1 World Champ

    Jan 14, 2007
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    Onno
    For some reason I only found this thread now but this has been the Agatha Christie of the year!

    Thanks so much to all who contributed, particularly past owners.


    Onno
     
  16. ferrarip4

    ferrarip4 Formula 3

    May 8, 2008
    1,208
    Sydney, Australia
    Full Name:
    Chanh Lê Huy
    You should keep an eye on the vintage section as it's the most interesting!!!

    Cheers!
     
  17. SonomaRik

    SonomaRik F1 Veteran
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    Dec 15, 2006
    6,699
    Sonoma, CA
    #342 SonomaRik, Jul 31, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017

    Mr. Massini;

    It seems difficult to verify stamped parts, when the fonts, for lack of a better term, are so different on each stamping in terms of size and style. I would have expected that even if stamped at different times, that the personnel would have the same stamping tools in what seems an important process.

    Looking at the two shots of '0118 / A' they look similar, ubt much different, albeit the first "8" is upside down.

    Do such differences make verification almost impossible?

    thanks
    rik
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  18. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Mar 2, 2005
    13,525
    I cannot speak for the Ferrari Classic Department and am not connected in any way with the factory. Apart from the ciphers, fonts and layout that must be correct it is also extremely important to be able to prove a continuous history with NO gaps and stories. Besides that an analysis of the material (steel frame) is also highly recommended. Plux x-rays if possible. In the early 1950s stampings (punching) were not that important as they are today. Today, where values are so high (again, after 1989) all this matters much more. After all, you wouldn't want to spend 10 or 15 Million $ for an old and superrare painting that has a brand new frame.
    Marcel Massini
     
  19. 1oldf

    1oldf Karting

    Dec 25, 2007
    86
    Whittier, Calif.
    Full Name:
    George Engelage
    This being my first post and having the response we had has shown me how this Ferrari group of owners, supporters and true believers represent a wonderful community of outstanding automotive very special people. Marcel has put the frosting on the cake with his final input. This problem is now solved...........My thanks to all who contributed. 1oldf aka George who many years ago owned #0124A, 340 America.....
     
  20. JazzyO

    JazzyO F1 World Champ

    Jan 14, 2007
    11,854
    The Netherlands
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    Onno
    So I have found! Today was the first time I drove a pre-1970 V12 Ferrari (1966 330GT 2+2). I am not the same! :D

    What a day to remember.


    Onno
     
  21. Terry Buffum

    Terry Buffum Rookie

    Jun 29, 2008
    4
    Bend, Oregon, USA
    Full Name:
    Terrill E. Buffum
    If someone will post them for me, I can provide photos of Jim Kimberley in 0124A in the tech line at Elkhart Lake, 1952, and of my brother and me crossing the Awards Platform at Pebble Beach, 1980. At Pebble the car was awarded the Hans Tanner Trophy and Second in European Chassis with Custom Coachwork. As I recall, that was the only class we could find into which a Ferrari was eligible at the time; with the body by Touring and the chassis by Ferrari, it sort of made sense.
     
  22. MJarrettR

    MJarrettR Formula 3

    Apr 14, 2004
    1,472
    Miami, FL
    Full Name:
    Jarrett Rothmeier
    Feel free to send them my way and I'll be happy to post them for you.

    mjarrettr@yahoo.com

    -Jarrett
     
  23. AustinMartin

    AustinMartin F1 Veteran

    Mar 1, 2008
    5,094
    Los Angeles/Idaho
    So, did we find out what car it is???
     
  24. 1oldf

    1oldf Karting

    Dec 25, 2007
    86
    Whittier, Calif.
    Full Name:
    George Engelage
    #0124A Thank you...
     
  25. AustinMartin

    AustinMartin F1 Veteran

    Mar 1, 2008
    5,094
    Los Angeles/Idaho
    Awesome! Have you contacted the owner???
     

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