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IDF stops 14 year old suicide bomber

Discussion in 'Other Off Topic Forum' started by ralfabco, Mar 25, 2004.

  1. ralfabco

    ralfabco Two Time F1 World Champ
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    The IDF stopped at a checkpoint, a 14 year old Palestinian Boy who
    was wearing a concealed vest full of explosives. Hey was paid
    $23.00 for the one way suicide mission. He was promised 70+
    virgins in heaven upon completion. Such noble leaders to send
    their "young" followers on their way to heaven.

    Where is the UN ?
    Where is Unicef ?


    At least the Palestinians can now stop complaining about the humiliation
    they face at the checkpoints.
     
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  3. pots

    pots Karting

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    Pots...Mr. Pots
    ARt: This was Bushs fault too right?
     
  4. darth550

    darth550 Five Time F1 World Champ
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    The kid has the mental capacity of a 12 y/o. Very nice way to send off an impressionable kid! He should take that $23.00, buy some Hustler magazines and tell them to FO next time!

    Crappy as it is....they will probably send him back!

    DL
     
  5. MarkG

    MarkG Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
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    BUT - he was ALSO going to get 70 virgins, and for a 14 year old male that's plenty incentive enough. All we get to do is hang (no pun intended) with Jesus, and the Jews don't even get that!!

    "Where is the UN ?
    Where is Unicef ?"

    Dan Abrahms I believe, on MSNBC, has brought up the very same point, asked Amnesty International why they wern't involved. They said because there is no history of children being abused by Palestine. He named scores of incidents....no rebuttle from the wonderful folks at AI......
     
  6. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 World Champ
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    the sickness will never end because of the mindsets of the jews and arabs. they think they are fighting for their God's land and will. how can this type of fanatical religious insanity be rationally dealt with?

    their secular cultures are also complicit. arabs and jews would rather die than appear weak. neither want a negotiated peace because negotiations are a sign of weakness. they both believe the only way their interests can be fulfilled and then protected for the long term is if the other side surrenders. there can be no compromise, it is only i win/you loose.

    its getting to the point where they deserve eachother and their mutual misery. problem is the hatred spreads to the rest of the world so we cant ignore it but no solution in sight.
     
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  8. Zack

    Zack Formula 3

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    Thanks doc.
    No, the Palestinians are fighting for land that was forcibly taken from them in this lifetime. And for recognition as a people and a state.
    In the same way that fanatical zealotry and oppression has always been dealt with. By sowing hope, education, freedom from tyranny and rendering fanaticism meaningless and irrelevant. There will always be a fringe element to society, but there's something seriously wrong if a whole populace embraces it--then you need to identify and eliminate the cause. What are you talking about? I am talking about the Israeli oppression...
    Their cultures are religious, not secular. Stop trying to use words you don't know the meaning of.
    Not true. How do you arrive at this? Most of those killed in this conflict really did not wish to die--whether they were rolled over by an Israeli tank or blown up by a suicide bomber.
    Simply not true. The vast majority wants a peaceful (but equitable) resolution to the conflict.
    Wrong again. Both sides have stated their interests. How they go about protecting them is presented to you by the media, which is often manipulated.
    There has been so much compromise and sacrifice on each side (as well as brutal unfairness) that your statement is laughable.
    What point is that? And who appointed you judge and jury?
    Agreed, although morality dictates that we help out our fellow human beings without being biased, and not wait till the conflict mushrooms to the point where it threatens your/our own interests and security. Charity begins at home. What about education? Righteousness? Freedom? Probably where armchair quarterbacking ends. Tel Aviv? Washington?
     
  9. Kds

    Kds F1 World Champ

    Zack.....

    Coming fom someone living on an island where the Greeks and Turks have fought for decades your "understanding" of the situation seems laughable at best.
     
  10. Zack

    Zack Formula 3

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    I have seen examples of your understanding too, Kds, or should I say lack thereof. You radiate a singular lack of intelligence, mated with colossal bigotry and narrow-mindedness.
     
  11. ralfabco

    ralfabco Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Spiderman that is a bunch of BS that you wrote.

    Let me tell you that I just got back from Israel a few days ago. Oh sure
    you have nuts on both sides that want to keep the fire going. But the
    democratically elected State of Israel government is not going to such
    lengths as the other side. There is no comparison here. Please do
    post pictures of the Israeli side allowing women and children to attend
    rallies in the streets proclaiming Jihad. Most Israelis are not allowed to
    own anything beyond a "registered" handgun. There are no pictures of Israeli grandmas packing AK-47's; or children draped in green Jihad banners with plastic toy bombs strapped on their chests. You cannot find any pictures of this behavior ANYWHERE else. Perhaps North Korea or Cuba ? NOWHERE. Are there any parallels in the modern free democratic western world of such behavior ? Of course not.


    I also understand your feeling on this matter. It is very unfortunate that
    the media has constantly blown this internal matter out of proportion.
    I am sure CNN, Time, and The BBC etc., has "far" more reporters based in Jerusalem in relation to Pyongyang or Bejing. It has no relevance at all.


    Where do you start ? "MILLIONS" - slaughtered - in Rwanda, ( Of course the UN had absolutely nothing to say ), North Korea working on three stage ICBM's with the aim of targeting N.Y.C., LA, and Washington. Our middle class jobs being sent overseas to China. etc.... And what ?
    Their was world wide condemnations after the skeik who preached publicly Jihad was killed ? Jack Straw condemned the killing at a terrorist conference
    in Europe. What ?
     
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  13. Kds

    Kds F1 World Champ

    Zack....

    Thank you for proving my some of my points about the "pillars of leftist/liberal politics".......those points here being "name calling" and "denial of reality".

    Being called a stupid bigot by someone who cannot muster a better rebuttal in the face of facts is an honor.
     
  14. Zack

    Zack Formula 3

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    I am not a leftist or a liberal or a democrat or a republican or a conservative or whatever else it is you want to label me with. Who's doing the name calling? I told you exactly what you are. Your problem if you choose to be insulted by it.

    My religious beliefs tell me that your house used to be mine 3,000 years ago. Can I come and kick you out? What if I have a big, burly friend. Can he help me kick you out? Don't get too worked up--I actually prefer the climate here.
     
  15. Kds

    Kds F1 World Champ

    Please.....I am not worthy of such lamentations.....
     
  16. Zack

    Zack Formula 3

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    In case you don't know, lamenting means regretting. Who's lamenting?
     
  17. writerguy

    writerguy F1 Veteran

    Sep 30, 2003
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    Now Zack pay attention KDS is canadian and a few years ago the only thing that stood between Cyprus and some third rate Balkan meltdown between the Turks and Greeks was a bunch of CANADIAN UN peace keepers.
    Before you start throwing stones across the greenline check who you are throwing at.

    Some of the points you made are valid but not all.
    Anyone who would think that the way to get your point across is to strap a bunch of C4 to someone who should be playing soccer in the school yard needs to get their heads examined
    Hammas for what it is buy sending this kid out has proven yet again that it is the hight of cowardice to use terrorism as a means to an end. I would rather see the new leader of Hammas come out and take on someone face to face instead of sending children to die for his cause.
     
  18. Zack

    Zack Formula 3

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    Now Writerguy, pay attention.
    The peacekeepers, whether Canadian or Pakistani, were part of a multinational force operating under a UN mandate. Their Canadian nationality is not the reason to respect them. The fact that these individuals were preventing violence and bloodshed is what is to be admired. Further, they were following UN orders, not operating on some Canadian initiative. So thanks to the [omit Canadian or Pakistani] peacekeepers.

    Not once did I condone suicide bombing. Taking of innocent lives is wrong, pure and simple. Too bad this standard is not applied to the Israelis as rigourously. If the moderator allows, I have some very graphic pictures of Palestinian babies that you might be interested in looking at. Or do you think they were terrorists as well? Or is it their fault for not moving out of the way quickly enough as a rocket or armoured machinery did its damage? Noone asks what the rocket or armoured machinery was doing there in the first place...

    There are people who do the talking face to face. Hamas is the militant wing. It does not do the peaceful negotiations. Just as most Israelis do not support the settlements and seizures but some have taken it upon themselves to continue doing this, Hamas has taken it upon itself to respond with violence. Sadly, Israel blames the Palestinians for fostering Hamas. And makes everyday Palestinians pay for its actions. To complete the never-ending circle, Fox News and Kds lap it all up.
     
  19. ralfabco

    ralfabco Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Zack:


    Thanks for offering the pictures. I can also supply some pictures.


    You mention that Hamas is the military wing.
    Are they the only ones willing to die for the cause ?

    What about the following different groups ?

    Hezbollah ( Iranian backed Shiite ~ of course ),
    Al Aqsa brigades ( PLO Official Organization )
    PFLP
    Islamic Jihad
    Perhaps I left out another organization or two ?

    and "last but not least."

    The 20+ different compartments and organizations of
    the official Palestinian Police.
     
  20. Kds

    Kds F1 World Champ

    Zack....

    I spent 6 months as a UN peacekeeper in the Sinai. Pics have been posted previously. I am also not someone lapping up Fox News.....or Al Jazeera for that matter. I read everything I can......sometimes go there.......but in the end probably make a more educated analysis than most who would be affected by these sources would I assume.

    While we do not share the same opinions as to what will solve the world's problems in the ME at least we agree they exist.

    Problem is.........on "one" side they lack the will power to control/eliminate those who want to propogate the conflict.........and on "that" side they are unwilling to recognize this fact. Pride cometh before the fall..........

    ps.....you were correct about lamentations BTW.....maybe "attention" would have been more suitable.
     
  21. Zack

    Zack Formula 3

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    No, lots of people are willing to die for what they believe in. The more desperate a situation becomes, the more the number of people who will resort to acts of desperation. They can align themselves with any number of groups or factions that spring up to support them. Again, the more desperate the situation, the more the number of such groups or factions.

    Just because you had a nice cup of coffee on a sidewalk cafe in Tel Aviv while some "Pali" (as you choose to call them) did the dishes in the back and another "Pali" (as you choose to call them) waited on you, and jsut because enjoyed a couple of nice sunsets does not mean that you have some special insight into the situation or the mindset of the people there--on either side. Or did your friend Ariel whisper some state secrets in your ear that make you understand everything better?
     
  22. writerguy

    writerguy F1 Veteran

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    Oh how easy it is to look at this from only one side....


    one side rounds up kids and puts them in camps fostering hatred to their oppressors
    the other side takes those kids and trains them how to blow themselves up (preferably on a school bus or some other populated area) to get the oppressors to stop
    this makes that side get all pissy and round up more people into camps and just for good measure bomb some areas where the leaders who strapped the explosives to the kids live
    RETALIATION RETALIATION RETALIATION RETALIATION RETALIATION No one wins everyone looses

    There is no Right here but a lot of wrong. A helicopter firing guided missiles into a residential neighborhood has the same effect as walking into a crowded wedding chapel and blowing yourself up IT IS ALL BAD

    Don't demonize the Israelis they do a good enough job of that themselves but the constant Terror campaigns sooner or later will bring a really big response that will destroy the entire area.
     
  23. Zack

    Zack Formula 3

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    First reasonable post I have ever seen from you. Except you end it by saying that pride cometh before fall...whose fall? Sometimes Davids win and Goliaths lose.
     
  24. zjpj

    zjpj F1 Veteran

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    And the Jews are fighting for land that was taken from THEM years before that. The Jews occupied that land BEFORE the Palestinians and were expelled by Syria or something (I'll have to check my research.) Arguments that say the land does not belong to the Jews are myopic, at best. If you are forcefully expelled from an area, then you are never allowed to go back into that area? That's like saying that the Italians still have a right to England because of the Roman's conquest all those years ago. Go back farther in history, Zack, and you will see a much different picture of who has occupied these lands over the years. It may surprise you.

    I'm going to try not to get into this debate any more...
     
  25. ralfabco

    ralfabco Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Zack:

    At least I have been there more than you. I have immediate family there.
    Perhaps you also have family there ? It is not my fault someone
    hired a Pali dishwasher. I feel they should find employment elsewhere.

    Ariel Sharon is no friend of mine. He should resign. They should find
    someone who can take care of terrorists without fighting a pitched tit
    for tat fight. There can be no let up or quarter given to terrorists.
     
  26. Zack

    Zack Formula 3

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    Writerguy, my response to you would be the same...sometimes the Davids win against the Goliaths. Society today allows too much freedom of travel and mingling to round up your enemy into one enclosure and bomb the **** out of it.

    In the case of the Palestinians, it would be a good thing for them to secure their own self-determination. But if it's achieved in this manner, through a militant struggle, rather than through fair and open negotiation, then it will be taken as a sign of success and vindication by every other violent group out there. They will cite the success in Palestine as a reason to escalate their terrorism.

    Now, much as I respect Islam, I do not want to live in an Islamic state. Or live in an environment where any separatist or fundamentalist movement thinks it can go around using terror to achieve its goals.

    What the Bushies and the Israelis don't seem to get is that their tactics are endangering security instead of fostering it.
     
  27. Zack

    Zack Formula 3

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    Ralfabco, I have been to Israel and the Occupied territories 220 times (5-6 times a year for ~40 years). I have family on both sides. You?
     
  28. ralfabco

    ralfabco Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Thanks Zack.

    Oops.... I had no idea.

    I stand corrected.


    You have answered just about everyones post. I would not expect
    you to comment about the 14 year old boy carrying the bomb. You did
    not comment about my post suggesting their are "other" organizations
    in addition to Hamas, who feel that all Palestinian Land must be liberated.

    Of course the Palestinians "before" 1967 had no desire to become independent
    while they were under Egyptian and Jordanian soverign rule. Why ?
     

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