definitely the 512TR!
This shoulda been a poll! Talk about a tough decision, my two favorite modern Ferraris. But it's the 512TR by a nose. It's got the look that screams EXOTIC, is mid-engined and doesn't suffer fools. But you can have the terminally weird F512M, I don't care if it is a better car, it's ugly. My opinion is that the 512TR will be worth more than the early 550 in just a couple of years. Right now 512s are trading in the 80-110k range while early 550s can be had for 110k with mileage. Another two years and they will flip. Maybe I'll get both! Mark
Hey, Bostonmini! I got plenty of 512TR pics, many in high-res, just send me your email and I will put some together for you.
Good choice, Tom. 512TR is my choice as well, always has and always will be. I fell in love with those cheese graters ever since I first laid my eyes on them as a kid in the early 80s. Nearly spun out on a highway bend once, but the pavement was wet. Luckily, the road was empty and the bend has a huge shoulder, so I was able to recover and continue driving.
I am biased but my vote is for the 512TR. When people refer to TR's as "dated" I just don't see that in a 512TR, maybe they are talking about a regular TR. I think there is a bit of jealousy towards the 512TR because of its looks, just like towards a beautiful woman. I have never driven an 550 but I would not trade for one straight up. No offense to the 550 owners as its beauty in its own right and its great to have different F-cars for different tastes. A TR type woman below. http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7165
Bubba--- Thanks for your approbation. Greg--If a picture is worth a thousand words.....I cannot wait to get my hands on the car. BTW, Some state laws require permit to wear that dress......lol.
Tom, I agree the economics should not the the key variable in buying any luxury toy. If you need to play games to rationalize your purchase, then you better think again. However, like many here, I need to be careful about the cost of my obessions because I don't have an unlimited bank account. A friend once told me that the most expensive luxury car you'll ever buy is your first one because, if you buy right, you'll have enough equity to swing into the next car. That said, I'd like to throw out a few rules of thumb: 1. Almost all high-end cars depreciate, except for the true super cars and cars like the 360, which are the exception to the rule. This is a good thing because I like to buy all my toys used. I'll let somebody pay the premium for being able to say that nobody else has sat in the driver's seat. 2. The typical depreciation pattern for an expensive car to be worth 60% to 65% of MSRP after three years. The next step down is 40% to 50% after 5 years, after which prices plateau out. (Note that American cars tend to keep falling down to the 25% mark.) So let's apply this to the 512TR. From what I remember the MSRP on a 512 TR was around $195K. According to the FML, the current "asking price" average is $100K. Let's knock off 15% from the FML price and say that the market for 512TRs is $85K. So, 44% is right on the money for a ten-year old, high-dollar sports car. My 1998 Maranello had a sticker of $215K, and it is a 6-year old car. Using the 50% rule of thumb, this means that my car is worth $108K. Indeed, I talked to a dealer today and he said that high wholesale on my car is between $108K and $115K. (Of course, I think that it is worth more due to my ownership, but I digress.) If we assume that 44% of MSRP will be the bottom for this car, this means that my car should be worth $95K in four years. All this assumes, of course, excellent condition with all services up-to-date. And this, of course, is the rub. A 512 TR will always cost more than a 550 to keep on the road. It's just the nature of the beast. When you combine this with the fact that the 550 has more ponies, better brakes, traction control, and so forth and so on, I find it highly unlikely that the lines will ever cross to where an average 550 will sell for less than an average 512 TR. Chances are that 512TR prices are close to bottoming out and that 550 prices may fall another 10%, particularly if the 575 replacement is dramatically different, i.e., mid-engined. The gap will narrow, but I don't think that they will cross. At some point, all the older V12 cars will mellow out and start slowly increasing in value, particulary if Ferrari keeps raising the MSRP on the new V12s (and particulary if, as some predict, inflation is going to come roaring back.) Bottom line? Get the car you want. If you get buy a 550, you will probably see 10% depreciation. If you buy a 512TR, you probably will see very little depreciation, but your additional maintenance costs will eat up the difference. Someone, I believe that it was Napolis, said that, Sunrise to Sunset, that owning a production Ferrari will cost you somewhere between $2 to $3 bucks a mile. When you figure that even a POS Yugo will probably cost you at least $1 a mile, the extra money is worth it for the smile on your face. Take Care, Dr "Green Eyeshade" Tax
I know that I am biased because I own one, but my choice is definitely the 512TR. For me, the 550 is too understated compared to the 512TR. My car is at Fx Perfomance now for some paint work and I am having steel braided brake lines installed. Costa, he shop owner told me that there is some minor rust under the strakes on the driver's side. I am having that removed and also removed if there is any under the strakes on the passenger side. It is back near the radiator somewhere. I guess this is a suspect spot for water collection. You other owners might want to have yours checked.
dr tax; i tend to agree with most of your statement, and also feel that we are somewhat kindred spirits in that i only ever buy used. however, i disagree on 2 points. 1. the 360 is no different than any other car and will eventually drop like a stone - we are seeing that in the uk given the sheer number on the road, the early ones are priced only about 10-15% higher than late 355's now. but this is academic for the moment. 2. i think your calculus for the depreciation is about right, except that there is an added element to consider and that is again the number produced. the total run of 512tr/m was only approx 2700 (2200 tr and 500m). [the earlier testarossa does not enter into this equation at a production run of approx 7500 because every cognoscenti knows the differences brought about with the 512tr and so consider it as an entirely different model.] whereas the total run of 550/575 is well over the 2700 mark and rising. add to that the age vs disintegration ingredient, whereby there are far fewer 512tr/m's still in one piece (as a %) vs 550's; and you start to get to the area where the prices for the 2 cars should converge within 2-3 years. thereafter the 550/575 will take another considerable price dump due to whatever new (and presumably front engine) model ferrari replace it with, such that the last mid 12, designed-during-enzo's-lifetime, old-style car will slowly start to edge away price wise. of course all this is imho, and i am biased, but this whole calculation did run through my head (as i was desperately trying to justify the purchase to my wife), and i am glad to see that at the very least my purchase of 3 years ago has not lost value (and has provided immense joy).
1. i'm sure dr. tax meant "today, now". of course 360 prices are going to drop like the flies they are 2. my data from cavallino says 3,715 550 Maranellos produced (that doesn't include 575Ms nor the Barchettas). fwiw, doody.
For me at least this is a total no brainer. The 550 is certainly one of my favorite Ferraris of all time.
I find the whole debate about residuals a bit odd. To me, it's a new vs used question, but when it comes to comparing two used models, it should remain a very secondary question. While cosmetically better than the original 84TR, the cosmetics are still very reminiscent of the 80's TR design. With due respect to other people's taste, I have trouble conceiving that the 550's grace and class can be compared with a TR. I would not trade two 512TRs for my Maranello ! We're comparing an Armani suit with a Nike training outfit. And when it comes to praising a car that prone to spin, that would not be my definition of a well sorted & balanced chassis. The beauty of these forums is that it's difficult to resist commenting on questions that you find irrelevant ... ;-)
Dr Tax-- Thanks for the comprehensive analysis. Your inputs as others are very insightful. I already bought the 512TR and it's in the process of having the major service done.
Will the 512TR really be more expensive to maintain than a 550 5 years from now? There are fewer expensive electronic gizmos that will break in a 512TR.
Hi Greg-- What are the electronic gizmos in your reference? Can you elaborate? My 512TR is getting its major service done right now and I would like to proactively have everything looked at, checked out or replaced while the engine is out. You also made a very interesting point. While I contemplated my purchase decision b/w these two cars, I made some major service cost comparison and found in most instances, the estimate comes in higher on the 550M (than the 512TR) even though its engine stays in..... Does it sound right? What am I missing?
Interesting because it is my understanding that just about anything on the TRs is engine out vs the Maranello. But, hey, we're talking about Ferraris here. There ain't nuthin cheap on these cars. Have you priced the Italtian air that you have to use in the tires lately? Mama Mia! Actually, to really answer your original question, I think that the 512TR and 550 are such radically different cars that I don't think that money really enters into the equation at all. Yeah, they're both Ferraris, and they are both V12s, but that's about it. If you like front-engined cars, you will prefer the 550. If you like mid-engined cars, you'll prefer the 512TR. Some zig. Some zag. And still others zig and zag. Dr ZigZag Tax
Dr Tax-- You are absolutely correct. The lack of clarity in the statement is my oversight. I was told the engine for the 550M doesn't have to be removed for the major service which should make it less labor intensive than the 512TR; hence, the deductive reasoning for lower expected cost....but again, I am substituting assumption for knowledge. As you eluded to..."everything about F-cars cost..."...
Who gives a shet about resale. Here's the common sense answer: drive both and buy the one that you like.
The Corvette is a Nike training outfit, the 512TR is a Brioni suit you wear for a night on the town, the 550 is more of a business suit
Yeah right. Come on William, drop this law school crap and hop on a plane. I'll show you how us bidness suits drive.
Someone in one of the four pages here mentioned that their 512TR/M is faster in a straight line than a 550, by a good margin. My question is how? What has been done to it?
Forget about performance, it's all about having a red car with a fat a$$ wider than JennyLo and Mariah Carey combined ;-)
