If we have the money : $3M rare Enzo or the upcoming $3M T.50 ?

^^ Congrats ^^

 

The back of the car looks like the walmart fan we break out here in Florida when the A/C gives out on the hottest day of the summer.

That hideous Jules Verne looking rear end should've been scrapped at first sight. Who's steering the ship over at Mclaren, Captain Nemo?

Oh, and... F50.

...and a custom Ferrari alcantara hemorrhoid donut for after long drives, because I got that kind of cash in this dream.

 

Not a risk. Speedtail got accepted before they were even half of the way through production. There's zero reason for the DOT to refuse or delay Show and Display cars that pass emissions.

 

Very intelligent, critical review. Thanks for adding your insights into multiple cars and manufacturers in your brief but impactful sentences. Hope to hear more from you.
(not sure if you're suggesting that McLaren has anything to do with the T.50 ? )
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Not exactly. Cosworth have built a NA lightweight alloy V12 producing 650bhp with a 12K (not a typo) redline. Xtrac has built a lightweight conventional gearbox and the whole car weighs 980kg wet.

To my humble mind, that contract would be the nail in the coffin, but there are plenty of people, or client consortia, with the money to simply finance/buy the company should it falter. I'd bet quite a few are amongst the 75 (or 100) who have signed up....

 

You have clearly invested yourself in learning what this car is, and who builds it...


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IMO one can have 80% of the fun and performance of the T50 for 8% of the price with a GT3 touring
I'm comparing NA cars with manual shift

 

You have to look at that center driving position from an overall width point of view.

Look at it this way. A LaFerrari has a total width including mirrors of about 225-230cm. Don't recall exactly how much it is, but there about.
The seats are about 60cm apart center to center. This effectively puts your head 82.5-85cm from the edge of the mirror. The T50 has a total width of 185 so that effectively puts your head 92.5cm from the edge. Trust me, you will have few issues seeing what's in front and in the oncoming lane.

Add to this that the seating position much further forward will help you see what's coming at a T-jùnction.

I don't recall that you have driven a Lusso or FF, but I can tell you that the seating position that far back, can make entering traffic from the side interesting to say the least.

Saying that the center driving position is dangerous, is making assumptions too early.

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Congratulations, I'm happy to have helped make the dream come true and work with real gentlemen, meanwhile I am confident this will be perhaps the nicest Giallo Modena Enzo extant when the TLC process is complete.

 

t 50 sounds like it's gonna' be just like my 348...ha-ha. We'll have to wait til' someone drives one.

 

As somebody in a RHD country on a LHD continent, with a 50/50 RHD/LHD collection, a central driving position sounds ok.

On the t50 contract , I just don’t know...it’s high risk, but if it’s brilliant (which it could be) some people are going to laughing all the way to the bank, or the ditch if they drive it in the wet

More likely they will fail , no disrespect to Murray but most of these projects do.

What I should really really like is for Ferrari to make this car, small, N/A V12, gated shift, back to basics, proper car builder/racer.
They could have my cheque now.

Twin it with a small V6 nimble sister , call it say, Dino, and they could have my wife’s cheque tomorrow.

The Aston Valkyrie just looks like the worlds most expensive chocolate tea pot, absolutely pointless, ugly, bus sized, unusable hyper-schmiper. XJ220 written all over it..sorry !

 

Many projects fail, but if anyone can claim to have a track record that does not point in the direction of failure, It's Gordon Murray.
You cannot compare this to e.g the Valkyrie project for instance. There's something to be said for keeping things on a manageable scale. Part of the issue with some of the struggling projects such as the Valkyrie and AMG One is their origin and the fact that every step has to go via committee. Sometimes having a big corp backing you is a good thing(Bugatti) and sometimes its a disaster, especially when the backer is in the reds such as,AM.

And lastly, one thing not to forget. He has already done it once and know how itis done. If anyone has a team that can pull it off, it's him. Had this been done by McLaren, I would not go near it with a red hot poker.

Back in the early days of the F1, many people pointed their fingers and shook their heads, and they all went silent once the car materialized.

If I had an allocation, I would not lose any sleep other than to sheer excitement.

We can all dream of Ferrari doing a similar thing, but they won't. They make cars for a much broader spectrum of clients, and there's RACE to think of.

Like a Koenigsegg or a Pagani, this is one mans dream and vision - and from what I can see, he has left very little to chance.

He may be lying which I doubt, but according to those involved with the project, everything is spot on target and on schedule. That's a lot more than can be said for AM, the One and McLaren. That in itself is quite telling in these Covid times.

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I

I agree with what you are saying and make no comparison of what GM is doing with what Aston are doing.

That Ferrari won't do it is evident, but a shame.

Don't get me wrong, GM is worthy of all our support. What he is looking to build(small and light) is what I would like to drive.

More so that Pagani or Koniseg, but they are also worthy of respect.

It is a risk, especially at the moment, a big risk, but that is not to say it is not worth taking.

 

The Valkyrie is far from bus-sized. Have you ever seen it? Quite a compact car

Also before we say that T50 buyers will be laughing all the way to the bank, consider this: just 8 years ago my 2000km Enzo couldn’t fetch £850,000 after 12 months in the market and I was offered a McLaren F1 at just over £2 million (I had also been offered another F1 in 2020 at just over £1.5m). For comparison, the T50 today is close to £3million including taxes.

We have all experienced a multi-year explosion in the value of these cars, driven by low interest rates and constantly rising stock markets. It doesn’t mean the current values are the right ones. I for one do not believe the T50 is as safe an investment as many people here think



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The rule that should govern all car purchases, from a utility truck to a Valkyrie or T50 is : Do you want the car ?

The best insulation against fluctuating valuations is that you own a car you really want to own.

 

After reading this thread some more I'm revising my want for a T50....considering the ridiculous deposit structure and their ability to change whatever they like...and when to deliver....an enzo today sounds far better. Of course an F50 still first....

 

Agreed. The few I have spoken with, whom have paid a deposit all have one thing in common. They want the car and have no desire to flip it. All except one, is an F1 owner, and they are original owners. They don't need to sell anything to either make room for a new car or get money for other projects. It's all based on the want factor.

We can choose to call the deposits silly and ridiculous, but they are part of what makes a small project happen. As for the price being too high like Bas Jaski also says? How are they doing things different than Ferrari? The La F was in this price bracket 7 years ago when debuted, and I highly doubt the La F successor will be cheaper. With the T50 I for once feel somehow that I see where the money is being spent. Lot's of clever solutions went into that design.
Take a look at the complete opposite end of the spectrum - the Sian. A heavy Aventador with a dinky little electric system and a body kit. That abomination fetches the same price!
Yes this and a Jesko is expensive, but with these I feel my money would actually get me something of real value.
If you purchase a T50 for the sole point of an investment, I think it is safe to say that you are not Gordon Murrays target demographic.

What value a car has is personal. I would never own an Enzo for any other reason than to make money off of it. I personally think it is the single most butt ugly Ferrari that has come out of Maranello since the 412, and I might even go one step further and say that I think it is worse. I don't care much for its sound either to be frank, so no thanks.

It's all personal and we cannot all like the same thing. But to say this is more ridiculous than the other ridiculous projects out there? Come off of it, that is just nonsense.

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Exactly T.50 is not a safe investment Any manufacturer may decide to one up it any day from now

 

seems super cheap!

 

A Mclaren F1 road car? That seems like 10% of the market value. Is there a typo?

 

None of these cars are safe investments. Seeing a modern car as an investment is to me at least, the completely wrong approach.

Not sure anyone can just "one up" them. It's not an easy recipe to do what they are dong, and if any of the big companies tried, they would have issues dealing with the fact that they would be making a car that needs to appeal to a much wider demographic.

While I'm sure GMA also have an interest in turning some kind of profit, they are not in the same situation as AM and FCA for example. If Ferrari had to do what GMA is doing, there's a good chance it would have to be priced much higher for it to add up for the shareholders. There's no doubt that this is the kind of project that is difficult at best for a large company to do. Many people have been asking for something like this for the past 15 years, and nobody has listened. They have just kept the horsepower wars going and the cars kept getting fatter.

Here's what I think will happen with the LaF replacement just to illustrate this. Let's call it F80 just for simplicity.

The F80 will be heavier than the La F. Ferrari will talk about this not being an issue due to torque vectoring trickery and more power.
The F80 will have more power than the LaF because it needs to have a better power to weight ratio than the LaF, and it needs to be faster than the SF90.
It will feature lots of big air intakes and angular shapes.
It will be priced higher than 3 mill Euro.
It will be produced in greater numbers than the LaF
It will feature a V12, but due to emissions, it won't make a ton more power than the LaF engine.
It will not rev past 9500 rpm
Many F80's will go to flippers and collectors who will not use them


Of course these are all guesses, but to me this also illustrates why the T50 is the right car at the right time. If a company start a project in the next 12 months, it's too late. Emission changes are coming for both 2025 and 2028, and the larger manufactures, being it Ferrari, McLaren or Mercedes, takes time to get anything off the ground as every little thing has to pass through the committee filter.

I can't help but wondering if some of the negativity has to do with how such a car will affect the rest of the fleet. There has always been a tendency for owners or "fans" of a specific car to greatly oppose anything new as not being as good. This happened when the Enzo debuted, then it was the F50 crowd talking about the lack of gated shifter, added weight, not enough F1 heritage etc. Then the LaF came, and it all repeated itself with the hybrid system being the issue, weight, looks and all the rest of it. Pagani and Koenigsegg came along and especially the latter have put a huge dent in the supercar sheet metal. For the Koenigsegg owners and fans, it has been the Bugatti crown having a tough time dealing with the fact that they aren't top dog. I wonder if this is more of the same? Is this a matter of some being afraid that the T50 will steal the F80's thunder? This is what happened to the F50 when the F1 came along. The F50 was impressive, but the king of the hill was the F1 by a mile. Will the difference between the F80 and T50 be as big as the F50 and F1? Probably not, but they will be very different and outside of our little Ferrari red bubble, the world will undoubtedly look at the T50 as something very special due to its heritage.

I think GMA does something clever when keeping the design timeless. I personally like the look of the F50, but there's no denying that it also looks its age. It's a 90's car looking like a car from the 90's. I have actually tried to test out the timeless design of the F1 over the past years when ever I could. When I met someone who is not into cars and don't really know what things are, the F1 never fails to get a surprised reaction as a car from the early 90's. It does genuinely get reactions where people think it's modern. Try that with an F50, and the guesses are usually 80's or 90's.
Some manufactures have dictated a trend in the past 15 years especially where cars have gotten more and more outrageous. I like an aggressive angle and a surfboard sized wing as much as any other track rat, but there's a lot to be said for a beautiful clean design like the T50 and F1.

In this day and age it's very hard to talk about safe investments with any car as we don't know what restrictions the future holds. But aside from this being built by a small company, this is no more at risk than the F80 or what ever gaudy atrocity the tractor manufacture puts out.

I think it's worth focusing a bit on the fact that GMA is actually trying to do what many Ferrari and other owners have been asking for. Why so much opposition? It's a V12 that revs to the moon, it's gated, it's light, it seats three in comfort, and like the F1, it's for all intended purposes a usable supercar. We're now getting what we asked for, and yet people are being pessimistic and find a reason to be unhappy about it.

 

F80 could be a Le Mans car i guess

 

Yes it is a typo...2010


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I'm a big fan of GMA's vision and objective. Mechanically and driving experience, it will be a winner. Design? Eh, pretty vanilla, boring even. Like the F1 was back in the day.
BUT, Ferrari has nothing to worry about for the future 'F80' in the looks department. Whatever they come up with will be amazing I'm sure. That's ok. I'll take function (T.50) over form any day in a supercar.

 

Ah, that seems more on point. Currently the F1 fetches 15-25 million Euro.

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