If you're considering an older Ferrari, you'd better buy it now!

It's because I started looking: the kiss of death for the cheap Ferrari.

 

Uro,

You just reminded me of that nice silver GTC for $70K that you passed on. Now you can buy a 2+2 for similar money.

Good Luck in your search,

Art S.

PS. On the other hand, Wayne bought the perfect car and it is now having teething pains.

 

If you don't mind my asking, I'm looking for some stocks to short, which ones are you buying?

 

If my dad had listen to me he would have bought a Lusso and a Miura SV 2 years ago. Both for 50% of their current price today.

 

Right into the gutter when gas goes to $3 a gallon. When the average American is struggling to make ends meet and paying $3 a gallon just to drive to work and back, the backlash against gas guzzling SUVs and sports cars will cause the market to drop. It won't be "cool" to be seen driving a gas hog down the same streets where Joe Citizen is pushing his car toward the gas station because his tank ran dry before his next paycheck came along. The rich may always be rich, but that won't stop a jealous Joe Citizen from dragging a key down the side of their Ferrari because of class envy.

 

Nonsense

At $3 a gallon gas would be still cheaper in the US than in Europe where people have similar standards of living.

I would love to see the SUVs gone and maybe that will happen, but I don't see the horror scenario you predict.

 

Horsey.

Stick to the Vette sites ok?

Guys who buy $200K and up Ferrari's don't give a crap about gas prices. Frankly neither do the $50K Ferrari folks. Gas prices just do not factor in to the equation.

The reason the prices have run up at least partially is because the dollar is so weak. Cars are going to Europe at better exchange rates.

GUESS WHAT THE GAS PRICES ARE IN EUROPE???

Hmmm. There goes that theory down the old loo....

DM

 

I'm confused. Ferrari guys don't give a crap about a few dollars extra for gas, but they do get antsy when their beloved Ferrari factory starts gouging on parts prices. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?p=134753113#post134753113
Seems to me that an extra dollar wasted at the pump is just as bad as a dollar wasted on a Ferrari part when a Porsche part is half the price.

 

petrol is nearly $7 here.

 

You're not confused, you're a **** stirrer.

That argument, and your argument are apples and oranges.

The price of parts and the price of gas, and the relative fairness of each, is not related.

DM

 

I disagree. Older Ferraris are still cheap; look at the 308. Way less than original sticker. The thing is, the "older" Ferraris are now newer. 1970's/80's cars as opposed to 1960's/70's. When 308's are fetching six figures, the 360's will be "cheap". They'll be a ton of them needing various expensive repairs that sell for very little money.

Ken

 

Now that you've salted the wound, I'll just go to my room and cry.

 

If you can't be accurate, you should at least try to be funny.

 

I think that "older" will always mean "pre 308" and a 12 cylinder in the Ferrari world. But I agree about there being a "ton of them needing expensive repairs". I was talking to a guy the other day about a Porsche 928. They were the flagship Porsche of their day, and they made many of them. But unfortunately, they are just as expensive to repair today, and therefore the prices are low because of the repair cost versus non-rarity and therefore non-desirability. Can you imagine trying to take a "now late model Ferrari" into a shop 10 years from now for a total engine out service? They won't even have the "ancient" computers and appropriate codes to unlock the CD service manuals before they can even begin the repairs.

 

We're talking about a passionate audience who will gladly pay $1300 for a tack cloth and $300 for a wrench. I just took my L Series Dino out on Saturday. I would pay whatever it cost to have that exhileration. Some people live their lives pragmatically some just "live" life. Buy what you love rather than buy for the investment. If its passionate and others agree it will probably be a good investment too because there's only a limited number to go around plus I love just staring at it which costs nothing!

Freeman

 

If you are making a point about the complexity of the electronic controls of 80's, 90's and (in the future) 00's Ferraris being expensive to service and repair when the car is no longer supported by the factory, then I think it is valid.
Look at the 80's Maseratis that are now unsupported by the dealers. They can be had at pennies on the dollar with repairs often eclipsing purchase prices.
I know, this is a different situation, different manufacturer, different etc.

One of the best reasons to buy a 60's or 70's Ferrari is the relative simplicity - I've had my Dino's electronic ignition rebuilt with modern electronics (MSD, Allison and others are also ready available), change the oils, adjust the valves and timing and it goes like the energizer bunny.

Similar standards of living in Europe?
Did you really mean that?
Do the number of home owners per capita in Europe compare with Americans?
What about the number of 2+ family car owners?
I've always found Europeans extremely class self conscious while Americans seem to strive towards being classless.

 

It is not a hobby, it is an obsession. I treat it as my equalizer, substitute for counseling, affairs, or other vices. I never add up the bills, although with the recent appreciation, I am probably ahead by a little bit. Just think of it as investing in art, a rebellion against mass produced mediocrity and the loss of "national character" in cars. You do not want one for an everyday driver, but at least one visceral mechanical experience per week is needed to ground oneself, not to mention establishing a connection to the "deus ex machina".

PS. Steering back on topic. Vintage F car prices are not likely to drop. Limited quantities and availibility of capital will make sure to that. Gas prices are irrelevant for the hobby car.

 

While I don't think gasoline should be used as the corresponding index, surely there is a historical and relative Ferrari price indicator. What would it be - property values, S&P 500?

 

I'm going to wait for those gas prices to go through the ceiling and then WAM I will own a beautiful vintage Ferrari for a song. I'm glad I waited.

 

That's why if you're driving an old Maserati (BTW you mean the Quattrotrope of the 80's or the exotics like the Merak? Or both?) you'd better be doing your own work. That's why I like older cars: you can work on them yourself, and have a cool ride that you otherwise couldn't afford. My Europa is cheap to buy and own PROVIDED you know how to keep it in top shape. No one would pay a mechanic to keep it running; the expense would quickly become silly for such a car. Yet for an enthusist it's an easy car to own.

308's are there now; the maintainence for these aging cars is causing attrition. You get an $18k 308 and it's either going to be garbage (parts car) very soon, or someone will have to sink more than it's worth to get it where it needs to be. The carb cars are going to become very sought after once the population of good cars gets crushed, which we are just starting to see now. Someone who knows 308's and wants to avoid surprises will gladly pay North of $30k for a carb 308 from an owner who kept it in top condidition.

Ken

 

Trust me, these things happen. From the local Thrifty Nickel:
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I bought my 330 2+2 because first, it's what I wanted. The relative simplicity of an older car was a very important factor. One of my biggest surprises as well as a major reason to go ahead and buy was discovering the extensive availability of parts, competent mechanical service for vintage Ferraris, and the online owner network (Fchat, Tom Yang, etc.) that has evolved. For those that haven't discovered it yet, pre-1975 Ferraris are a big-time interest even in the ranks of the not-so-rich and there are plenty of businesses out there that have seen the value in this interest.

Gas goes up to $3.00-plus a gallon, so what? If I drive 3k miles a year at 10 mi/gallon, I've spent $900.00 instead of the $600.00 I'm spending now for $2.00/gal. gas. Factor in another $3k for regular maintenance, elective work, maybe one $$$ repair, and insurance, and I'm in the $4k/yr. range to maintain what is my major hobby and what I like to do in my spare time. Plenty of people spend a lot more on non-vocational interests with much less intrinsic value.

To put it plainly, higher priced gas is not going to affect the market for vintage Ferraris. Even if you're not wealthy, it's still not a poor man's hobby. Those that want these cars can afford the gas and will find a way to buy and maintain them.

Speaking of invoices, I've saved and filed 99% of them from day one. Last weekend, I mustered the courage and added them up. Even with all the work, necessary and elective, that I've done on my car, the grand total spent is still well within the reasonable range, more so in light of the appreciation that has taken place in the last two years for even the more humble Vintage models.

 

I would say most early 308s are selling quite a bit above original sticker if in good condition. Sticker for a 76 glass was 24k I think and they are selling for a lot above that. Maybe they reach parity in 80 or 81.

 

Big difference, most SUVs are driven my broke rednecks or 2nd rate yuppies financed to the hilt, hardly the same for classic Ferraris!!!
It would be nice to see every SUV broken down by the side of the road.......................