If you’re gonna run them hard…..

Significant camber misalignment.

 

Not good! Looks like a rolling pin.

 

Toe out does that.

 

Camber doesn't wear tires like that. This is about Toe-out, or Negative-Toe.

 

Let's take it from the top.

Let's start by just acknowledging the fact that Ferraris are often delivered with alignment that is garbage. My Pista was actually crabbing in the rear alignment. Toe in on one side and toe out on the other.

Now, while Ferrari camber settings are also all over the place, there are limits to what is possible, because the nature of the setup don't allow for radical camber settings. So rarely are camber found to be above 1.5 degrees out back and over 1 degree in the front.

When talking about misalignment, it is important to understand that toe out is not a misalignment. Factory toe is between 5 and 7 minutes out per side.

As has been pointed out by a few, that kind of wear is not because of camber. Ferraris don't even come close to wearing the inside due to camber. If they have stock front camber, they have about -0.75 degrees front and -1.35 in the back. Pretty hilarious for a sports car. 458's, 488's, Pistas and F8's are nortorious for wearing the outside of the fronts. I have 1.95 degrees up fron on the Pista and 1.6 on the 488 just to get the tyres to live.

The wear we see here, is due to bad alignment, not incorrect camber. These cars just run better the more camber you add - within reason of course.

But poor alignment scrubs the tyres and that wears them out on the inside.

Let me know if you need alignment and camber specs. The factory numbers suck for anything but Rodeo Drive.

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I'd like to see the factory specs also, compare them to where I set mine up at....

 

Co-Pilota Hopefully are you talking about -1.95 and -1.6 camber on your cars . That 's negative camber .Not sure what 2 degrees positive camber would look like.

 

Wthensler -- this thread came at a perfect time because my front tires on my 458 look EXACTLY like yours and I've been aligning domestic cars for 36 years . I decided to throw it on our alignment rack and take a look. So here goes !! Flame suit on !!

Alignment typically consists of setting the 3 angles of caster , camber and toe. Any measurement out of the specifications would technically be considered out of alignment . I have a Novitec lowering kit on mine which is awesome looking but definitely decreased the camber way to the negative side on the front -1.6 degrees to be exact as opposed to a spec range of -.50 to-.90 and the rear at-2.1 degrees as opposed to the spec range of -1.1 to -1.5 degrees. When I looked at my tires before I put the car on the rack I actually did feel that the majority of the wear on the front was from a toe issue but combine that with the excessive negative camber and it will grind the tires off on the inside edge -- fast . I was right . My total toe on the front was -.80 degrees which is toed way out in my world but the factory spec calls for a total toe of -.18 to -.30 degrees toed out which I find surprising . I expect it more towards 0 degrees. The rear was toed in .40 degrees total toe which is towards the maximum toe in and I can live with that .

So what's a grease monkey to do ?? I'm going to leave the rear alone and I'm going to talk to the Ferrari guy at the dealership whose fairly sharp on what he thinks of the front. I'm getting new front tires at the end of the week and I will see how they wear . I don't drive this car much but if I see a funky wear pattern I won't hesitate to pull the toe in a little more . I'm not a race car driver so I would prefer to adjust the toe for better tire wear . The tires from the previous owner had DOT codes from 2016 so the tires went from new to worn out in 5 years but I have no idea of the mileage.

For the record --camber is definitely a tire wearing angle but I strongly suspect that on muscle cars and exotics that the tires are worn out for other reasonslong before camber becomes and issue.

Hopefully this will give someone a better insight into alignment.

 

You can say that again.

This is how the 488 Spider came from the factory. This is the rear. To add insult to injury, the is a LHD car. Impressive, eh? Maybe it's the same guy doing the alignment who's in charge of paint quality control. .. Image Unavailable, Please Login

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Yes negative. Just didn't think of putting in the - as positive camber is never used.



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Here are stock numbers. * represents degrees, and ' is minuts.

Front.

Camber. -0*48'. Tolerance -0*36' to -1*00'
Toe. -0*05'. Tolerance -0*03' to -0*07'.
Castor. 5*07'. Tolerance 4*43' to 5*31'

Rear.

Camber. -1*20'. Tolerance -1*08' to -1*32'.
Toe. 0*10'. Tolerance 0*08' to 0*11'.

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Here's a street friendly setup that is predictable safe. It still offers a tad of understeer. This is not aggressive, rather what should have been standard I think.

Front.

Camber. -1*33'
Toe. -0*10'.

Rear.

Camber. -1*25'
Toe. 0*08'.

Here's a more aggressive setup which is neutral in nature. Just keep in mind that this also means that the safety net is removed. If the car starts to slip and one panics, and then hits the brakes hard, the front bites, the rear gets light and youvare off. Fast, but for the more seasoned track rats who know how to regain control of a car with a track setup.

Front

Camber. -1*55'
Toe. -0*11' for 488/F8. 0*07' Pista

Rear

Camber. -1*48'.
Toe. 0*14'.

The Pista steering is valved differently, and applying toe out in the front with added camber etc. can make it extremely darty. The slightly heavier steering and softer suspension of the F8 and 488 respond better to toe out, where Pistas and Challenge cars are more planted and composed with toe in.

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Damn. -0.8 total. Must have felt pretty heavy. That's more toe out than a Challenge car on Silverstone.

You don't want to set your 458 at 0 degrees toe. It will be all over the place. Ferrari set up the racks quite light, and no angle makes it terribly floaty.

The toe out is very normal on sports cars and race cars. The 3 to 7 minutes out is notca bad place to start. Personally I think 3 is too little, and breaking becomes sketchy. 7 is nice, and allows a better turn-in. Not quite sure how you read your numbers or where they are from, but stock front total toe is not between -0.18 and -0.3. In degrees stock is -0.17 total, and the allowed tolerance is between -0.1 and -0.24. One minute represents 0.0166 degrees and stock is between -6 and -14 minutes total toe. -0.30 degrees total represents -9 minutes per side, or -18 minutes total.

0.40 total in the back is not catastrophic, but factory is 0.33 by comparison.

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This should be a sticky at the top!

 

One item that I would like to bring up. When doing alignments, please ensure that once an adjustment is made have the tech back the car off of the rack and then pull it back on. This will provide you true readings on the alignment. Sure, you can rely on the slide plates (movable plates under each tire on the rack), but in reality they do not do enough to get a true reading. Just my .02

 

Usually, when doing an alignment, you would bounce some weight on the fenders and exercise the suspension while on the plates and look at the reading again...

 

Of course my numbers are different. I didn't post factory numbers in the quote from Mike.

The factory numbers I quoted in post #15 are not from a Hunter or other table. They are straight out of the Euro work shop manual. The database where I do my alignment also backs up my factory numbers. Just keep in mind that when you post numbers, Ferrari measures in degrees and minutes, not millimeters or degrees only.



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Not only that, you will have a driver in the car.

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As usual, the living talking bible for Ferrari and performance technical information. Always appreciate your posts.

 

Luckily, seems like you were due for a tire change already anyway. It would have been a terrible shame it the tires were relatively new.