Ignorance of most US pop. about F1

Interesting ruminations on the USGP (and, by implication, its appeal to Americans) by Dave Despain on Wind Tunnel last night. He opined that Bernie would never run the USGP on an American road course as they're all located in rural areas. This is as opposed to Indy, Dave? Frankly, with all due respect to those of you in the midwest, Indy is a backwater- a block or two of buildings surrounded by a sprawl of half boarded-up strip malls. Hell, the one time I went (for the inaugural Indy GP), Bernie, et al helicoptered in from Chicago- what does that tell you?
Dave went on to say that any relocation should attempt to create an American-version Monaco GP- not sure that's possible, as there's no viable, equally glamorous venue anywhere in the US. Palm Beach (the real island, not West Palm) is the only place that pretty and affluent, and it's only 4 blocks wide at its widest point- falling off the island into the Atlantic or the Intracoastal Waterway could be worse than ending up in the harbor at Monaco!

 

What about F1 gp in central park New York?

 

Interesting concept, but a large part of what makes Monaco such a great event is the fact that the whole town (sorry, Principality) revolves around the race, with excitement growing each day. By Saturday night, it's almost palpable. Believe me, I've been many times and it's still a rush. I'm not sure you could generate so much excitement in a city so big (and jaded?) as NYC, but I'd be happy to show up and find out!

 

Allegedly Bernie is still staying in Chicago and helicopter in. Although I don't quite understand that: Indianapolis has a pretty cool downtown with great hotels. The track is in the middle of nowhere, that I agree, but that's true for many other F1 tracks.

Indianapolis isn't that bad from an infrastructure perspective: Airport, big city, highways all in place. Including a historic place, grandstands and F1 pits big enough. What sucks IMHO in Indy is the silly infield, which really is Mickey mouse and it doesn't have to be: If stingy Tony George would invest some $$$ and give up on the golf course, there could be enough room to make a somewhat interesting track even with some limited elevation changes. It will never be like Spa, but at least as good as Nuerburgring (the new track).

Alternatively (or in addition) I do agree that a city GP would make sense. Miami or Long Beach would be prime candidates. Heck, I even liked Detroit, Dallas and Phoenix. I would even go back to Las Vegas.

 

I agree with much of what Andreas says, but do dispute two points: (1) Indy is a "big city"? From an East Coast perspective it seems small and provincial. Hell, Baltimore/Washington isn't exactly Paris, but there are 5.25 million or so people here, so at least superficially it seems a bit more sophisticated and diverse. (2) Las Vegas? Not sure I ever want to see F1 cars racing around casino parking lots again.
Ira

 

Maybe you haven't been to Indy for a while? They did beef up their downtown area. Many new big hotels are there, even a few new museums and the center has the unique shopping mall going across the streets. It ain't bad, really. And definitely hipper than some of the other F1 "cities" like Monza, Imola (ok, Bologna), Nevers, etc.
I'd say Indy is as interesting as Baltimore (ok, they got a harbour, but still).

I know the Las Vegas GP layout looked like Mickey Mouse, but did you ever try it out? I drove it virtually and it is actually fairly challenging. Do I want that circuit back? No. But a city like Las Vegas would be big enough to come up with a unique road course AND would have the necessary infrastructure (hotels, airport, highways) to take care of the fans.

To make one thing clear:
It is a lot easier to build a decent race track than to build a city near an existing one.

For the fans the best experience IMHO are tracks like Indy, Montreal, Monaco where you can take public transportation or a cab to the track. Places like Silverstone, Magny Cours, Watkins Glen or Road America are impossible logistically. As a fan I want a decent hotel bed and easy track access. Maybe it's an age thing and I'm just getting too old for camping...

 

What about the Daytona track. Although the infield resembles Indy. At least the France family have the resources to make a F1 gp happen. Plus Orlando is only an hour away and happens to have 70000 or so hotel rooms.

 

Andreas is certainly right about places like Montreal, Monaco, etc. providing easy access- that's certainly a plus. Back to Indy, driving to/parking at the track and was no pleasure. As for infrastructure, yes hotels and a big airport are great, and no one's likely to build them to support an existing track but again, back to Indy, that little airport, with no international flights, just doesn't cut it. I'm not saying that Silverstone and Magny Cours are better (oe even decent), just that if Dave is arguing against staging a race at a US road course because they're too far out in the hinterlands, it's not too easy to argue that Indy's that much better.

 

Parking can be though, but I learned a few tricks over the years: Bribe your local parking lot person to give you pole position, then leave just before the end of the race. Alternatively if you stay in one of the better hotels downtown, you'll get a police escort into and out of the place. Same is true e.g. for Ferrari owners. Rockstar feeling pure btw.

Indy does have real international flights. Some of my buddies arrived directly from Switzerland. If nothing else connecting through O'Hare would give you the whole world anyway.

Anyway, there aren't many race tracks WORLDWIDE that can offer beds for 100,000 visitors. Cause that's really what it all boils down to. So comparing Indy to European GPs (Silverstone, Magny Cours, Spa, Hockenheim, Imola, Nuerburgring, Monza), Indy wins in many cases. Comparing Indy to US road courses (Riverside, Glen, Road America), Indy wins again (we're talking infrastructure here only). And Indy has the tradition going for it. Only places that could beat Indy would be city courses (LA, San Fran, NY, Miami) or e.g. Daytona as jaslally suggested.

PS: I can't believe I'm defending this lousy track so much. Ira, did you brainwash me?

 

Oh man, an SF course with airborne cars, that would be priceless, everyone would drive in 1st or 2nd gear. There is the occasional LA Grand Prix of vintage cars. A Miami or Seattle circuit would be nice too. Who would we have to bribe/kill for a Manhattan circuit?

1,000th post yippee

 

There's no room in Manhattan for the pit lane, garages, grand stands, control towers, etc. Would it even be possible?

 

Hey guys,
What about Chicago? 200mph on Lakeshore drive, wind around the fountain, under the streets by the river(Chicago's version of the Monaco tunnel!), a nice short chute up the "Magnificent Mile", turn by the beach, and back on Lakeshore. Pits in the parking lot for the Convention Center - plenty of room! I'm not a real big fan of Chi-town, but the pic in my mind of F1 cars against the backdrop of Lake Michigan is looking good!
Jim
ps Leaving for the USGP Friday after work - and I can't wait! WOOOHOOO!!! See ya there!

 

The Chicago idea almost makes sense, especially when you factor in Andreas' concerns about hotel rooms, airport, and other infrastructure issues.

 

I have often enough fantasized about CART coming into town (we had them on the Speedway oval). I even thought about a track layout along the lake etc. It would be doable including pit lane and grandstands. Heck, I almost sat down and programmed the track for it on the PC (didn't do that, but did program the Chicago oval instead).

But there is a problem: Cities like Chicago (or NY or San Fran) have too much going for them and in them to do this kind of thing. It's almost like a pretty woman who doesn't need another necklace, whereas the lesser one covers herself in jewelry if you catch my drift. Cities like Chicago or NY are too "sophisticated" (read snobby if you like) to do a spectacle like that, especially if it interrupts major parts of city traffic for an extended period of time. Monaco is different, there it is part of the culture and heritage.

So to make a city GP happen, you would have to pick a "lesser" city like Miami (sorry guys, I like Miami, but hope you understand my point) or Long Beach. Or you pick something as big as Las Vegas, where you can put the circuit outside the actual city.

 

I was thinking about an approach to having an F1 event in NYC.

Most plans I have ever seen start with NYC and then try to find a way to lay out a challenging course within it. This always leads to "environmental concerns", "traffic studies", "noise issues", etc. This is all because of the high density of well connected liberal thinkers in the city.

Rather than trying to fit F1 into NYC, why not try another approach that would allow a first class track/facility to be built while not having to make all the compromises that eventually lead to an uninspiring event?

First step; Level the South Bronx . . . .
Second step; Build a world class facility

 

LOL

Hey, you got the state of Jersey outside the city doors. Enough room there. Seriously.

It would be impossible to do it within the city. The artist Christo has fought for over 20 years to get his temporary gates art installation into Central Park. A worthwhile, beautiful and unobtrusive event. And that took over 20 years. Imagine something of the size of a F1 race. Would never happen.

 

I agree that this would be a tougher sell to cities like NY or Chicago, but even they take economic development impact into account. It'd be a boon to restaurants, hotels, etc., etc. Now if only Bernie didn't want a huge fortune to land the rights to stage a race, maybe some tourism development official in NYC, Chicago, or elsewhere could persuade the local powers that be.

 

Eddie Jordan prefers Boston

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=21386

 

In a pit lane interview today on Speed TV, Peter Windsor managed to get Bernie "The Man" to admit that the US needs an additional date on the F1 calendar. Bernie was pretty adamant, though, that there should be no more than two in the US, as "it is a *World* Championship, you know!"