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Imperial: Sato off the hook - overheating!!

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by watt, Aug 2, 2004.

  1. watt

    watt Formula 3

    Jun 17, 2004
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    in the latest F1 mag richards indicates the limted margin of safety on cooling systems is casuing sato's blowups... please read it!!!!
     
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  3. LopeAlong

    LopeAlong Formula Junior

    Mar 29, 2004
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    "blah, blah, blah" - the Richards spin machine at full speed. You can believe about 1% of what the guy says and you had better check sources on that too! When the heat is on ALL these guys will dance like a chicken to keep the sponsors at bay. I guess that Taku also got the "ONLY experimental teraflobalteredsuperspecialistic cooling system in the WORLD to test under race conditions!!!" While Button runs merrily off into the sunset. We don't need entertainment on the track, the clowns behind the pit wall provide plenty!

    the F1 world according to ME!
    Jim
     
  4. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie
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    By Richards, I suppose you mean BAR Team principal David Richards. If that is the case I ask you do you think a Team pricipal that gets financial backing for his own team from Honda will state that a Honda sponsored driver actually causes the problems? Do you think BAR Team principal David Richards will actually implicate and accuse Sato of the engine problems and jeopardize the support his team gets from Honda. Anyone in that situation will defend the driver.

    LopeAlong got it 100% right - "blah, blah, blah" - the Richards spin machine at full speed.

    This is just another way to keep a major sponsor at bay and defend their sponsored driver. Don't believe everything you read. Just because someone said it does not make it the truth.
     
  5. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie
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    This undoubtably applies to you as well ;)
     
  6. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie
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    Difference is that I am not the BAR Team principal David Richards. So why do I care? I do not have any vested interests.

    In fact I hope that BAR throws out Button and there are two Sato's next year. Both of them Honda sponsored and "not responsible" for blowing up engines all the time. Lesser competition for Scuderia Ferrari. ;)
     
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  8. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    The logic in this one is just mind boggling: Two cars made to the same specs with the same engines and one driver gets it home every time and the other ends up with a lot of smoke. Engine cooling, yeah right.
     
  9. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie
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    Yeah, logic is a ***** at times

    Honda spends hundreds of millions of dollars to make the engine, BAR spends hundreds of millions to make the car, and they both decide that it’s worth it to have a driver that blows up engines just because he’s Japanese.

    Not to mention that it’s much more in Honda’s interest for commercial reasons. to have an American driver

    Logic, an elusive element it seems in Formula 1, at least as far as some fans are concerned.
     
  10. watt

    watt Formula 3

    Jun 17, 2004
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    merely informing my dear friend imperial of further info!!!!
    it's those SS balls emitting all that heat!!!
     
  11. Hubert

    Hubert F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2002
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    f1 cars don't have rad fans. That's generally known; however, the lack of fans, leads to overheating, when the car is at a standstill for prolonged, or repetative stops; i.e., pitstops to fix nose cones, drive through penalties, etc. Their is nothing revolutionary about Richards' disclosure re: cooling. His last excuse for Sato's engines letting was something about Sato dropping too many RPM b/w shifts. That issue, is entirely unrelated to cooling/radiators or overheating. So, which is it?
     
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  13. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    The RPMs drop made a bit more sense, not too much though either.

    Your point about the car at stand still is well taken, but still doesn't explain Monaco unless you argue that he had prolonged stand stills in the practice runs (which I don't know whether he had or not.
     
  14. Hubert

    Hubert F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2002
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    The engine in monaco was sickly from the get-go. Sato should have been pulled in - you could see smoke right from the start. What was the problem with the Monaco powerplant? Manufacturing defect? Component failure ? Overworked in practice, and qual? I don't know, and I don't have the telemetry, so I don't want to speculate (too much). It doesn't bother me that Sato blows engines - I'd like to know why, but it doesn't make me angry at the guy - Jacques used to implant at least one chassis per weekend into something stationary, so Sato blowing engines is par the course as far as BAR's consumables budget is concerned.
    I don't think Sato's car is used for beta testing, unless Honda is explicitly coercing BAR into doing so, becuase retiring a car 5, 6 , 7 races in a row is far too detrimental to the constructors championship , and since earnings are (partially) point derived in F1 (from Bernie's TV dealings), I do see either party interested in pissing away money, simply to do weekend / race distance testing.
    I simply think, as was the case of Jacques, you have a driver whose driving temperment and 'style' has to be molded. (The fact that he brings Honda's cash with him, surely endows the situation with more patcience.)
    "To finish first, first you must finish."
     
  15. LopeAlong

    LopeAlong Formula Junior

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    Hubert, where the heck have you been hibernating for the last couple of years?!?! Taku can only hope to be the racer JV was. Year after year of promises of a better, more competitive car - only to get mid to backmarker crap. You could see that although JV put up a brave face, he knew he was screwed. His drives became less and less inspired. Then when he began to throw a few barbs, HE is the unmotivated ******* - not the crappy team. I would love to see him in a Williams again. Unfortunately I think Sir Franky (speaking of an a$$) still has a hard-on about how JV left. I think JV still has something to prove, just put him in a decent car and let the fun begin.

    I also find it interesting that many of the same people who are down on JV for speaking his mind, think Whinny P Montoya is some kind of hero for being a complete loose lipped idiot.

    Jim
     
  16. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
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    Jim,

    JV was never a team player and his treatment and purposeful fncking up of Jensen's race shows him up for the complete d!ckhead he is and was. Yep he came into the pits BEFORE asked just so it would compromise JB's race ... because JB was proving faster than he is.

    JV came to F1, jumped in a very good Williams and won an easy championship ... that was extremely lucky IMO, right place at the right time ... not skillful.

    The best place in F1 for JV ... is fncken miles away ;), he is an embarrassment to his father IMO. His father used to welcome team mates with open arms and then let the racing show who was faster ... not other BS!

    Irvine and JV had a lot in common ... but I will concede that JV was faster. In the end though neither could motivate anybody to work with them because they lack something in their personality.

    While Sato may or may not become something, he is atleast giving it 100% and playing the team game.

    Pete
    ps: Some drivers only look good in good cars ... and there is a reason for that!
     
  17. moretti

    moretti Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Damn pete!!!!

    I agree 100% :)

    JV was and IS an arsehole of the highest magnitude, the best place for him is Mars!!

    He was never a team player and if he went to Williams I'm sure he'd be sat on his arse inside a week because Webber wouldn't take the **** from him like JB did.

    It was a happy day he got the boot (remember he was BOOTED out, not left of his own volition because he's an arse!) and all we need is for DC and OP to go and fill the spots with drivers of the future not the past.

    I think drivers like Alonso, Button, Fisi, Kimi and Webber are the future so lets leave the bums behind and move on...JV was damn lucky to win the one championship he did in an exceptional car of it's day
     
  18. DGS

    DGS Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Button escapes the "overheating" issue because he's such a cool dude, eh? ;)

    Notice that DC isn't abusing course workers by the side of the track, either.

    Some (mostly younger) drivers tend to be less "in tune" with the hardware.
     
  19. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie
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    While Rubens is criticized for being a team player, Sato is praised for being a team player.
    While Rubens scores points in all races but one he is criticized for not giving his 100%. Sato who damages his car and causes engine failures in most of the races is praised for giving his 100%.

    This world is confusing place. Oh well!
     
  20. Sempre_gilles

    Sempre_gilles Formula Junior

    Jul 11, 2003
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    JV was always dring backmarker crap. Then one day he left, and suddenly BAR had a very competetive car. Now two possibilities come to mind:

    1. BAR deliberately slowed down their cars while JV was there
    2. JV was a louse test driver not able to improve the car, while Jenson Button and Takumo Sato can.


    Pick your choice.
     
  21. GTE

    GTE F1 Veteran

    Jun 24, 2004
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    Well, it is a fact that Jacques received a very high salary from BAR. Also in relation to their budget. That is no surprise for when Jacques stepped on board, one Graig Pollock was leading the team and was also managing Jacques. As a driversmanager is concievable that Pollock´s fee consisted of a percentage of the salary he managed to stipulate on Jacques behalf. Well, since he also was entitled to take part in the negations on behalf of BAR, it doesn´t really come as a suprise that Jacques got a very nice contract at BAR. And not even rightly so. Jacques 1998 season didn´t really justify a topdriver-status on the market.

    It is also fact that Richards urged Jacques to accept a pay-cut. Richards knew he could never force Jacques to such a thing, but as Jacques didnt´t accept he did have to accept the concequences and that was the refusal to re-new Jacques´ contract at the end of 2003. Many people, including Jacques, blame Richards for the fact that Jacques isn´t in F1 right now, but the fact is that it is Jacques who has only himself to blame that he isn´t at BAR right now. The fact that he isn´t in any other F1 team is down to the other teambosses. Apperantly Jacques wasn´t interesting enough.

    Another fact is that he failed to out-race Button in 2003. Not a major problem, but Jacques made life difficult for himself when he tried his best to verbally intimidate Button at the beginning and early half of the season. People started paying notice to anything that happens between those two and it turned out Jacques was beaten both on and off track by Button. As Jacques declared himself: "If I can´t beat Button, than I have no business in Formula 1." And so it shall be.

    Besides all that: Jacques really wasn´t that good behind the wheel of an F1 car. In that respect, he indeed is much like Montoya. He does have the raw speed, but lacks the focus to translate it into consistent results. This apperantly leads to frustration and the frustration leads to mouthing off competitors and teammates for no apperant reason.

    On topic:
    Sato is not wrecking engines. There are races in which the engine does hold it through untill the end. Sato´s isnt obviously changing his drivingstyle from race to race, so apperantly it is the engine that is inferior. I also can´t remember that Sato had this problem last year, when he tested extensively with the BAR-Honda. What remains is a very fast and determined driver, oozing with talent and speed. Sure, he needs some fine-tuning, but whats the problem in that?
     
  22. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Too simplistic and general a statement. Totally disagree. JV worked just great with Williams and things were on the way up at BAR. The fact, that he had Pollock as his representative didn't help. But let's be realistic for a moment: Had JV stayed on, he would be earning some of the results now coming the BAR way.

    Irvine didn't do well at Jag, no question. But who does? Jag was/is a mess and I wonder how long they continue on like this. The fact that Irvine didn't win the title in 1999 I solely contribute to a missing tire at Nuerburgring. With those points and some more support from Napoleon, he would have clinched the title. Not a great title contender, true, but that statement about JV and Irvine lacking bits of their personalities is humbug.

    Quite the opposite: Heck, I'm no JV fan (I am an Irvine fan as probably everybody knows by now), but JV and Irvine both had gobs of personalities, something that is painfully lacking for the most part from today's grid. I admire Kimi and Michael for their talent, but have given up hope to ever get a funny one liner out of them at a press conference.
     
  23. watt

    watt Formula 3

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    RB does a great job acheiving the goals of his spot. how could he do better? he is also one of the few gentlemen driving.
     
  24. watt

    watt Formula 3

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    you can tidy up speed, but you cant speed up tidy...
     
  25. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie
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    Precisely! I agree 100%. I made that comment for PSK.

    PSK criticizes Rubens for being a team player but praises Sato for being a team player. He then says Rubens does not give 100% when he gets points in all but one race and says Sato gives 100% when he is responsible for all those engine failures and car damage.

    That is what I meant when I said the world is a confusing place. :D
     
  26. Jameel

    Jameel Formula Junior

    Nov 4, 2003
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    True, they, try, and make the cars identical but that doesn’t mean that’s always the case. Look at how many times and engine blows up or a wing flies off (Kimi’s last race), etc… You can never make them 100% identical, because of manufacturer defects.

    Now the fact that Sato has blown-up more engines, is it purely bad luck, or is it in his driving. Who knows?
     
  27. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    You're right in your statements. No two cars are identical. No two engines are identical. And these differences should cancel each other out over time. There is no luck or bad luck in racing over an extended period of time (there are such things for one particular race). So what's puzzling is, that on average Sato's engines blow up and Jenson's don't.

    If there were a cooling issue with the BAR, then the amount of blown engines should fall somewhat equally to either driver. But that's not what we're seeing.

    PS: Of course the one laughing at his keyboard is Imperial for we make his case of Sato not meriting his seat over and over again in this thread. Clever Imperial, very clever.
     
  28. Jameel

    Jameel Formula Junior

    Nov 4, 2003
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    True, I was thinking the same thing when I posted my previous message.

    Regardless, I like Sato and he is entertaining to watch.
     

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