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In-period vs. Non-period Rebodies

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by El Wayne, Nov 14, 2012.

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What is the cut-off for rebodied cars discussed in this forum?

  1. Absolutely no discussion here of cars without original coachwork or coachwork that appears as origin

  2. Only allow discussion of factory-sanctioned rebodies

  3. Only allow discussion of cars rebodied within 3 years of construction

  4. Only allow discussion of cars rebodied within 5 years of construction

  5. Only allow discussion of cars rebodied within 10 years of construction

  6. Only allow discussion of cars rebodied prior to 1980

  7. Allow discussion of all rebodied cars that are not replicas or "recreations" of other models

  8. Other (please explain below)

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. El Wayne

    El Wayne Global Moderator
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    #1 El Wayne, Nov 14, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2012
    Ok, now that we have collectively decided to keep all discussion of non-period rebodies isolated to a dedicated subforum, certainly we don't mean to exclude from this forum discussions on cars such as the Scaglietti-bodied 375 Mille Miglia s/n 0402 AM (see my avatar) or the legendary 250 SWB "breadvan" s/n 2819 GT, which were each rebodied approximately one year after their initial construction. So then, what is the cut-off? One year? Three? Five? A decade? Anything rebodied prior to 1980?

    Please vote and discuss.
     
  2. Daytonafan

    Daytonafan F1 Rookie
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    IMHO within 10 years of construction seems reasonable.
     
  3. thepinkumbrella

    thepinkumbrella F1 Veteran

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    At the very most three years. Thereafter the vast majority have passed their competitive age and are merely converted for vanity reasons.

    Paul
     
  4. El Wayne

    El Wayne Global Moderator
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    #4 El Wayne, Nov 14, 2012
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    Just to stir up the discussion, consider 212 Inter s/n 0147 E: originally bodied as a coupe by Vignale in 1952 and later rebodied in the style of a LWB California Spyder by Drogo in 1965. What do we do about this car?
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  5. thepinkumbrella

    thepinkumbrella F1 Veteran

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    Plus those converted within a three year time frame will have a degree of historical significance and more than likely will have had the modifications carried out by a recognised carrozzeria.

    Paul
     
  6. thepinkumbrella

    thepinkumbrella F1 Veteran

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    Who designed the original California?
    That should answer your own question....

    Paul
     
  7. El Wayne

    El Wayne Global Moderator
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    Paul, thanks - you make a good point. Now please vote in the poll so that the results represent the opinions held here.
     
  8. El Wayne

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    #8 El Wayne, Nov 14, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    0716 TR. Originally bodied in 1957 as pontoon-fender TR by Scaglietti. Rebodied into a berlinetta (today we would call this a poorly-done 250 GTO replica) by Drogo in 1964 and continued to race competitively. Rebodied again in the 1980s by Fantuzzi back to pontoon-fender TR coachwork and subsequently raced in historic events.

    Rebodied more than three years after original construction and then bodied again many years later. All bodies have been completed by "recognized" carrozzeria and the car has competed on the track with all three bodies.

    I'm not making an argument one way or the other here; just giving everyone something interesting to discuss.
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  9. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

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    I generally agree with El Wayne.I doubt there will ever be a 250TR rebodied and then thrown out of vintage section. Then there is the case of 0262 the Abarth Ferrari or the rebodied SWB Berlinettas and 250 GTOs with largely recreated but original looking bodies. Then of course there is the issue what other parts are or are not original.There can never be a hard and final solution for this issue. There is the FOC judging rules to consider as well as the good old market place opinion. I would suggest when there are ???? about an individual car the thread be placed in both categories and see what the results are. In this day and age the final bottom line seems to be largely in $$$/Euros/BPS in the market place. Can't you just wait till some of the "fat cats" in China get into this market place. I can see it now. I bid 25% in Swiss franks, 36% in Russian rubbles 29% in Mexican pessos and the balance in Chinese government bonds. tongascrew
     
  10. BIRA

    BIRA Formula Junior

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    There is a point there. Putting a car back in its original specification, if it had been transformed in period or out of period should not disqualify this car.
    And where do we stop knowing that a large number of race Ferrari don't have anymore their original body or most of their original body panels.
    When an early Ferrari barchetta had later a coupe body, then reverted to the original type of body barchetta, is it a replica or an original car? And when the original body was destroyed in an accident, is it acceptable to reconstruct a new one,,or should the car remain as a wreck?

    Here we are talking of treating separately cars which were never at any time what they pretend to be. Would it be acceptable to put back the bread van to an original SWB configuration and a GTO 64 transformed to the original 62 GTO body??
    But this is totally different from creating out of period a look alike GTO.
    In period is of course another thing. What about the PF S1 spyder rebodied as a LWB California and Boano reputed rebodied as California at Scaglietti? Should they revert to their original forms out of period to be more authentic?

    No an easy thing, but I would rather have a car with all it's original components being rebodied to look as it was originally , even if for some times it had a different body, than a full car being built using just an original chassis which was discovered recently.

    But this is matter of taste as I want to see some elements of the original craftsmanship...
     
  11. Sempre_gilles

    Sempre_gilles Formula Junior

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    For me the exact date when a car was rebodied is not very relevant, the only thing that matters are the intentions behind the rebody. A rebodied car becomes a replica when it pretends to be something that it is clearly not.

    A 250 GTE rebodied and presented as a 250 GTO or 250 TR therefore is a replica; the Breadvan is a rebody.

    For me, the Felber cars therefore are (admittedly: ugly) rebodies.
     
  12. Enigma Racing

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    Interesting thought.

    Does that make GTO s/n 4675GT a replica as the intention behind the rebody was to make it a series two ?

    My own view would be period up to five years, based upon a car becoming uncompetitive or mechanically outdated thereafter
     
  13. VIZSLA

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    As a general rule that makes sense but there will be exceptions.
     
  14. miurasv

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    According to barchetta, GTO 4675GT had an accident at the 1963 Tour de France. I don't know if it needed rebodying but it may have been updated to '64 specification to keep the car as competitive as possible as may have been the case with other S1 cars that were rebodied? 4 were updated to '64 style.

    http://www.barchetta.cc/english/all.ferraris/detail/4675gt.250gto.htm
     
  15. Enigma Racing

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    Agreed. I was being a little controversial

    Indeed the series two modifications improved high speed handling and the rebody was completed by Scaglietti
     
  16. michael platzer

    michael platzer F1 Veteran

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    i fully agree with you!
     
  17. michael platzer

    michael platzer F1 Veteran

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    looking at the poll results 66,67% agree with you!
     
  18. michael platzer

    michael platzer F1 Veteran

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    i think every rebody done by Ferrari should be out of question!
    built by Ferrari and rebodied by Ferrari still makes a genuine Ferrari!
     
  19. Daytonafan

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    Out of curiousity where do people stand on Daytona Spyder conversions? Many were done in the late seventies so could be argued to be in period although equally some were done in the 80s and be classified as out of period?

    There are also clearly changing a Ferrari into another model even if it is not a full rebody like a GTE to GTO conversion?
     
  20. Sempre_gilles

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    #20 Sempre_gilles, Nov 16, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2012
    For me a rebodied car becomes a replica when it pretends to be something that it is clearly not. So i.m.h.o. a chopped Daytona presented as a Spyder is a replica Spyder.
    The only genuine Spyders are factory built.
     
  21. Enigma Racing

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    I think we should stick with Rob Lay's definition.

    Recreations - car started its life as a Ferrari, still contains major parts (chassis/engine), but has been recreated into something it wasn't originally.

    Replicas by definition are off site
     
  22. TTR

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    #22 TTR, Nov 16, 2012
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    So, would this qualify all Daytona (or C/4, 275 NART, etc...) Spyder conversions as recreations (but not necessarily replicas) and therefor should be moved to "Recreations and non-period rebodies" ?
    Just curious.
     
  23. El Wayne

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    Regarding chopped-top Daytonas and 275s, does someone here actually consider these cars to be "rebodies?" After all, they have only been modified to the owners' tastes and generally maintain more of their original sheet metal than many older cars that continue to be held in high esteem. If we ban discussion of these based on "conversions" to resemble something which they are not, what do we make of the multiple C4s and others that have been made topless even though no official convertible version of these cars has ever existed?
     
  24. TTR

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    #24 TTR, Nov 16, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2012
    Maybe it has nothing to do with this "re-body" poll, but I was just trying to get a definition since "RECREATIONS and Non-Period Rebodies" are lumped together.
    And there's the poll choice which I find a bit confusing (but that's probably just me): Allow discussion of all rebodied cars that are not replicas or "recreations" of other models

    Are (Spyder) conversions considered recreations or not ? Just curious.
     
  25. El Wayne

    El Wayne Global Moderator
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    That's my question, more or less.

    There are not yet any steadfast rules, hence the reason for this thread. By the way, my posts here do not necessarily reflect my own personal opinions on this subject, I'm simply encouraging people to consider multiple angles before deciding to restrict discussion on any particular category of cars.
     

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