Inconel / Kline

This is only one but there are many others. May not be this forum but these guy's talk about the Kline system.
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/997-turbo-gt2/368966-kline-inconel-997-2-turbo-s.html

 

I have KLine Inconel 100 Cell Cats and Inconel Valved Muffler. I just purchased the valve controller. KLine inconel products are not inexpensive by any means. Even my girlfriend was impressed to find out my exhaust was made out of inconel as she was explaining the applications they use at her aerospace company. She's part of the propulsion team of a fairly known company. I can ask her more if need be, but seems the discussion here is adequate.

Kline offers inconel headers for the 430 as well, which I feel most of us should give consideration if you are looking for a well-made 4-1 header. I believe Felix made it clear that he stands behind his product and will offer a replacement if something goes wrong. With hand-made parts, I don't think any company will guarantee 100% fault-free regardless of the material. Felix made it clear the material is very difficult to work with, but he has a satisfactory level of success and stands behind the product. I personally feel the quality of the product is worth the inconvenience if any.

The 488 Pista has inconel exhaust manifolds and carbon fiber wheel options. The LaFerrari doesn't. Ferrari offered what they felt was necessary at the time of developing the LaFerrari. It will only be a matter of time until special edition cars begin to have the cream of the crop performance materials.

 

Here's a nice read on Inconel 625 by Burns Stainless.

https://burnsstainless.com/blogs/articles-1/inconel


As far as stainless steel goes, 321 is superior to 304, but you'll rarely find any OEMs using 321.

https://burnsstainless.com/blogs/articles-1/stainless-steels-for-exhaust-systems

"321 and 347 are known as stabilized grades of stainless. These are alloyed with either titanium (321) or columbium (347), both of which have a much stronger affinity for carbon than does chromium at elevated temperatures. This eliminates carbide precipitation leaving the chromium where it belongs for corrosion protection...remember our discussion of intergranular corrosion? Both 321 and 347 are top choices for exhaust headers, especially turbocharger systems and rotary engines. Since 321 is much more available than 347, that leaves 321 as the first choice, with no sacrifice in needed qualities."

"304 is the most inexpensive and available stainless in the 300 series. It is suitable for normally-aspirated header applications, and has been successfully used by many racing teams. It does not have the high temperature fatigue resistance that 321 does, but is considerably less costly and much more available. Most 304 tubing these days has the dual designation of 304/304L."

 

-Richard is probably the first to have ran Kline system in his scud ...Inconel no less....test pipes...etc !
-I am probably the first to run a stainless steel system in my F430,
-Dan "whattheheck" also has a full SS system,
-Jochen has install the ss or inconel system,
-Ken...... of course has a full inconel system and then some
-Andrie...I believe has a SS system
-"Stickbrietling" I believe has a SS system
-Mike "unreelviper" has a SS system
-LorenoR, I believe has a SS system
-Kevin, "Klointheridge " has a SS system
-Dvb247, SS system
-cpep, Charle has Kline in his porsche ...maybe in his ferrari
-Mikael, I believe has SS system

These are the ones that I know of in this forum....there are way more on the porsche forums....I have not heard one unhappy owner.
Meat....it seem that you have a some sort of "beef" with Kline (sorry....I couldn't help myself ) You've continually and openly commented on problems with the Kline exhaust and how people are unhappy without providing any proof? I'm begining to think there is motive to your approach.

Also......I don't work or am in any way affiliated with Kline Innovation

 

I don't have any beef w kline nor have I "continually" commented on them. I only asked questions around their inconel-based products so when I said "exhaust" within the context of the Inconel/Kline thread I specifically only am curious about the inconel stuff. More than happy to disclose the details on the who and the shop via PM who have not been happy with the inconel-based products from kline (4 out of 5 customers experienced a failure ranging from a 458 to FF); unlike some of us they are not active on forums nor social media. If I had an agenda, I would've "openly and continually" posted that up.

Not sure why asking questions about something automatically got translated into anything negative. My questioning actually led to a very insightful (at least to me) discussion on inconel the material itself thanks to jcurry...I hope you guys got something out of that exchange. The whole cost-difficulty-to-manufacture bit I still don't buy that and I expressed it openly. Am I wrong to have an opinion?

Why are you bringing SS into this again? I would say you're reaching a bit and a half if you're justifying inconel stuff based off of SS product purchases...

 

I'm going by what was said in red....especially the word that was capitalized. I know it's a thread about Inconel but what you wrote didn't lead me to that.

You are welcome to your opinion.... that's not it. I guess... some transparency, examples, and back ups would be nice and would help the community. When statements like "4 out of 5 customers experienced a failure ranging from 458 to FF" is thrown out here...I expect some references.

 

I also expect evidence and pictures and accurate description of the issues. "4 out of 5 had issue" is a big difference to Kline's statement "about 1% issues".

 

As mentioned earlier, I'm not affiliated to the shop so I won't be airing grievances on anyone's behalf.

I also live by a gentleman's principle if you will and so I don't take+share pictures of fellow friends' / owners' misfortunes...those of you who track regularly will understand this and in all my years on these forums, I have NEVER once posted anything like that nor do I plan to.

I think I've done my part in making sure that there is some awareness of possible issues or at least posed some questions we should all be asking, by citing specific product type, range of vehicles and general origin etc, whether folks take it into consideration is totally on them. If you would like specifics, as mentioned earlier, pm me and I will provide you the shop's contact info and you can chat more about the challenges they've experienced first hand.

@Flea7 we're in an Inconel / Kline thread, we've been talking specifically about inconel...sure, I probably should've been super explicit and maybe retyped INCONEL over and over...but I felt that at some point we were all talking about just inconel full stop. Irregardless, it still doesn't justify you're assumption / correlation that SS products are representative of Inconel though so, I'll let you elaborate on that one if you like.

 

I can understand both points.

 

I have no problem with critically questioning products. Kline has taken a clear stance and called their error rate. Inconel itself is now also installed in Hypercars such as Ferrari Pista, McLaren P1, etc. However, your postings continue to convey the impression that Inconel exhaust systems from Kline would consist of 90% errors, no matter how other users argue. Why do we actually argue, if you do not care? RUF installed almost only Kline Inconel at Porsche, so far without problems. In March, I get my rear silencer from Kline in Inconel and will report.

 

dunno why you guys keep saying “continually”...I posted a local experience once, but you keep bringing it back up and I find myself being asked to respond, so not sure if it’s me that is “continually” saying anything...and I’ve already said if anyone wants to get the details we can take it offline and off this thread, Kline included?

Some questions ive asked and still curious to hear more about:

Would still love to hear from anyone on here w inconel product in their car beyond just initial install impressions?

Would still love to learn more about how it’s possible for a “difficult to manufacture / costly” material to be made by a small outfit at comparably similar prices to “regular” ss products while the oems and other tuners seem to still be hugely lagging despite their massive collective experience?

It’s good to hear so and so stands by this product and offers replacement (which I’ve also already indicated myself) but would be better at least for me to get a better understanding why certain things failed in the first place and what the vulnerabilities are in the product? That’s why I asked about the details of the warranty?

Are these things I can’t ask about on the forum? I’m sorry I’m not a millenial who blindly dropped some cash to go to some fyre festival believing I’d get to sleep w supermodels on the beach lol.

 

Simple. The small outfit could have a particularly skilled craftsman who can create the product at a high quality but low volume. Manufactures can't rely on people like this due to higher volumes, and other tuners can't find someone skilled or can't afford the investment. I'm not saying this is the case here, but its the case with many other boutique items like this.

In addition you have to look at the benefit for an OEM. They'll save a bit of weight at a significant cost and headache. Maybe they'll be able to name drop Inconel a few times to get some cred, but its not as well known as Carbon Fiber or Titanium so there isn't much benefit there. There is likely to be other parts where there is a much lower cost to benefit ratio. For a specialty shop like Kline its a much different story, as there is comparatively few things to differentiate them from other shops. In addition, as this thread shows someone buying an aftermarket exhaust is much more likely to dig into it and learn the benefits of different materials.

 

If I have an issue, its right out there, that's why I got banned recently for criticizing the engineering of another aftermarket supplier, I have only positive things to say about Kline, they are an innovator

 

I think I learned more than I needed to reading these exchanges. Sometimes the finer details don't get brought out unless someone or some company gets called out. Makes for a good entertaining read. Been on Fchat long enough, this kinda stuff is normal here. I think Felix handled it very well and took the time to divulge more than he really needed to. Speaks volumes of him and his company. No company is perfect, but I say buy with confidence. SS or Inconel.

 

You would think bigger companies would be most efficient at doing something because of collective resources and bargaining power. However, there is alot of red tape in the command chain and sometimes that allows for smaller companies to come in and do things better and faster. This is why spin-offs occur.

Ferrari offered the 488 Pista with a carbon wheel option and it seems they are telling anyone at the moment who is trying to order them that their car would be delayed half a year further. And this is only an option. Imagine if it was mandatory. It takes time to restructure and be efficient to do something new. It's up to the uppers to decide on the timing and if they are ready for it or not.

 

I think if anyone is concerned on whether inconel is a legitimately viable material that has been tested, just know that every large OEM's hypercar except the Chiron comes with Inconel exhaust as standard, from the LaFerrari, Senna, to the Koeniseggs and Pagani. Companies are beginning to expand their usage of inconel exhausts to the lower pricepoint models, such as the Pista, which has inconel exhausts as standard.

And this is just for the consumer automotive industry. Formula 1 has been using inconel exhausts long before us consumers got it, and aviation jet engines before that. If anyone's wondering, jet engines run about 10x hotter than those of cars.

Whether it's worth its premium is a personal judgement call. I think Kline is doing a great thing being one of the few aftermarket companies building inconel exhausts for Ferrari (the other notable one being Novitec).

 

I installed my Kline Inconel system and it is great - the best exhaust system I've ever had! The complete weight is 11,6 kg, what is very light. It is aboit 15 kh lighter than the stock system. The quality is amazing and ths sound ks not from this world. With open valves it is extreme quiet. This is very important for me. With open valves it is a pure F1 orchestra. I think I can show you a video in one or two weeks. Here are some pictures:


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On a side note, I also love the way Inconel 625 patinas overtime. New gradients of blue start to appear, which gives it a nice fresh high-end look. 321 SS patinas nicely as well, but not as nice as Inconel from what I can see so far.

 

You mean like this?
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Looks great!

I too love mine. 1,000% happy.

thanks for sharing.

Dan

 

Here is my car:

 

Your car looks great and the exhaust sounds great!

Dan

 

You have the valve controller Im assuming? Capristo headers?

What cats?

 

So here we are, sometime later, Ferrari is finally gone mainstream with inconel, Kline is in Romania, one of Eastern Europes least developed countries and Porsche has just bought a 10% stake in Rimac from Croatia, another of Eastern Europe's least developed countries, https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/porsche-buys-10-percent-stake-in-electric-car-brand-rimac/ for a very high price tag. In 2019 its no longer where you are from but how you understand the wealth of knowledge that's now available to you from the internet, its a game changer, respect those whom use this knowledge wisely, it will be your future, or contribute to your past....

 

Thank jo.e said for my pista and good job team 3P



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