Injector seals and retaining methods... | FerrariChat

Injector seals and retaining methods...

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by fastradio, Feb 16, 2008.

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  1. fastradio

    fastradio F1 Rookie
    BANNED Professional Ferrari Technician

    Apr 26, 2006
    3,664
    New England
    Full Name:
    David Feinberg
    Good day,

    I'm trying to update my technical library and am looking for some clarification on the injector seals.

    Here's what I know, with 100% certainty on the CIS equipped cars.

    There were two, distinctively different types of injector retaining methods used.

    -1) Simple donut type seal (Bosch 430 210 606, premimum seal-Green in color) used in the "plastic screw-in type injector collars" (no snap-ring present)
    -2) No screw-in plastic collar, snap-ring present but only retains longer stepped injector seal under a steel washer. There's seems to be some confusion as to the correct rubber seal used. Often, the Mercedes Benz PN 116 078 08 73 is thought to be correct, but really is too small for this "machined-in" injector holder.

    So...for those of you who have actually changed your injector seals, using the "Type 2" securment method, what seal did you use? Thanks!

    Regards,
    David
     
  2. Dave Bendl

    Dave Bendl Formula Junior

    Dec 7, 2003
    806
    Chicagoland
    Full Name:
    Dave Bendl
    David,
    Mine has the snap rings.
    I just used Ferrari P/N 113570 for the o-rings and ordered them from Dennis McCann at $2.25 ea.

    Dave
     
  3. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 26, 2001
    14,447
    Canada
    Full Name:
    Newman
    thanks, I need some too, ill be replacing the old steel injectors shortly with the brass ones.
     
  4. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,766
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    You guys are confusing me -- F PN 113570 is just the simple green donut = Bosch 3 430 210 606

    David are you talking/inquiring about this:

    http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=137320777&postcount=3

    where a molded Mercedes part looks like it could replace both the bushing and the donut, but is actually too small?

    PS You can add a third type of retaining method for the F CIS KE-Jet cars -- No screw-in metal bushing (with o-ring OD seal) held in by snap-ring using green donut and a second o-ring on the injector nozzle.
     
  5. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2006
    3,090
    Melbourne, Australia
    Full Name:
    Robert Hayden
    Steve M,

    I've tried to locate these Bosch seals in Oz, but unfortunately they are on a December back order ex Germany.

    I have the car here just waiting for injectors to fire it up after a year off the road, and now can't get seals.

    Do you or any of the guys know a source in the USA that may have stock items of these green viton seals?

    I have an address in the USA where they can be posted and then that person can do the internation post thing, as some suppliers won't ship internationally, especially on such a small item.

    Thanks. Rob.
     
  6. philvecc

    philvecc Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    751
    Longmeadow, MA
    Full Name:
    Philip Vecchiarelli
    Just ordered from these guys last week and received them already. Also ordered injectors.
    0437502047 injector approx. $21.00US each and W0133-1642075 Green O'ring $1.30 each.
    http://www.autohausaz.com
     
  7. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2006
    3,090
    Melbourne, Australia
    Full Name:
    Robert Hayden
    Hey Phill,

    You only left 11 in stock, send one back will ya?

    Rob.
     
  8. 2dinos

    2dinos F1 Rookie

    Jan 13, 2007
    3,016
    That's the stuff I got. Great service and prices.

    Rob,
    Are you serious about being 1 o-ring shy?
     
  9. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2006
    3,090
    Melbourne, Australia
    Full Name:
    Robert Hayden
    Yeah mate, I went online to order them straight away, and they are one shy, only 11 in stock.

    Then I got onto Dennis McCann and they only have five.

    The Aussie place that Steve M directed me too have zero in stock.

    Amazing eh, it's always the $2.00 part that stops these cars.
     
  10. philvecc

    philvecc Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    751
    Longmeadow, MA
    Full Name:
    Philip Vecchiarelli
    Robert,
    Sorry for the 1 piece short. You're making me feel guilty because I actually ordered 1 piece extra "just in case". Buy the 11 and PM me your address and I'll mail the 1 pc. to you.
    Phil
     
  11. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2006
    3,090
    Melbourne, Australia
    Full Name:
    Robert Hayden
    Hahahaha..........now that's funny.

    I thought 11 was an odd number for them to have in stock.
     
  12. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2006
    3,090
    Melbourne, Australia
    Full Name:
    Robert Hayden
    Sent you an email Phil.
     
  13. philvecc

    philvecc Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    751
    Longmeadow, MA
    Full Name:
    Philip Vecchiarelli
    Emailed back Robert. I locked in the 11 more with an order this morning. Should have the 12 on their way to you in a couple of days, if we're lucky.
     
  14. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2006
    3,090
    Melbourne, Australia
    Full Name:
    Robert Hayden
    #14 uzz32soarer, Sep 10, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    PhilVecc:

    Legend!!

    Thanks very much to Phil for grabbing the seals for me and sticking them in a care package to Oz.

    They arrived and within the hour were fitted to the car and I was finally able to fit the lower manifolds back onto the car.

    Thanks Phil. Great spirit shown by the blokes on here.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  15. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2006
    3,090
    Melbourne, Australia
    Full Name:
    Robert Hayden
    #15 uzz32soarer, Sep 10, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Now, for the risk of sounding like a right dick, I have a little issue that I need a hand with.

    It's been so long since I pulled this car apart, that I can't remember where everything goes!

    Draping the looms back into the engine isn't too hard as it is quite straight forward as to where everything connects. There are two eye earths on one wire that go to a bolt on the lower manifold to block. BUT...........right up the back of the engine clost to where the Y section of the water hoses is fitted there is another wire with a single earth eye that must go to a specific place?

    Buggered if I can remember though? I had a feeling that it went to a bolt on the USA Pass side upper manifold, but it would be great if someone cleverer than me could confirm this one.

    I want to fit the water pipes back tomorrow, then lay the fuel distribution units and all of the little valves and fuel relays etc. Then the car goes out to have a new set of fuel lines fabricated.
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  16. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jul 25, 2008
    14,261
    Amersfoort, The Netherlands, Europe.
    Full Name:
    Mel
    X-tra realy before the solonoid of starter ?
     
  17. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2006
    3,090
    Melbourne, Australia
    Full Name:
    Robert Hayden
    No Mel, it's right at te back of the engine near to the alternator and AC compressor.
     
  18. testamon

    testamon Formula Junior

    Aug 16, 2008
    346
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Mike O
    #18 testamon, Sep 10, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Rob looks to me as if it is the wire that goes on the water circ housing at front top. There is I think only 3 wires that have a conection like that 1 to the solenoid one to the ground point near cyl 6 and this to the connection on the front water housing. See if it looks like this photo if not I will troll through others to see if any other point might match- Mike
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  19. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2006
    3,090
    Melbourne, Australia
    Full Name:
    Robert Hayden
    Yep, looks good Mike.

    I can't see it on the red car, hidden under too much crap. I'll pull out that water housing in the morning along with all of the other goodies and see which one's I have overlooked restoration on. Might spend the weekend in the sand cabinet but by next week this beast might move under it's own motive power.

    Good thing too as the other one landed in Sydney this arvo!!
     
  20. sparta49

    sparta49 F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Mar 3, 2001
    7,804
    LA
    Full Name:
    Frank
    I ordered all the injector seals from GT Car Parts in Arizona 623-780-2200 they weren't very expensive from what I remember
     
  21. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2006
    3,090
    Melbourne, Australia
    Full Name:
    Robert Hayden
    The wire going to number 6 inlet manifold generally is two smaller wires with two eye tabs Mike.

    Yes, one to the starter and this one to the back.

    Makes sence also to be on the water housing or else there would be no way to ground those two sensors properly.

    Thank goodness for digital cameras eh?
     
  22. philvecc

    philvecc Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    751
    Longmeadow, MA
    Full Name:
    Philip Vecchiarelli
    Bob,
    That engine looks gorgeous. When you're done send more pics. Maybe you can plan a trip to the US and assist me with mine. After all you owe me big time for those gold plated O'rings.
    Seriously... great job...
     
  23. testamon

    testamon Formula Junior

    Aug 16, 2008
    346
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Mike O
    #23 testamon, Sep 10, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017

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