Injury from Oxy-acetylele torch? | FerrariChat

Injury from Oxy-acetylele torch?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by UroTrash, Sep 7, 2010.

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  1. UroTrash

    UroTrash Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #1 UroTrash, Sep 7, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2010
    Ever heard of this kind of thing?

    http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2010/08/help-a-brother-out.html




    I don't know these folks BTW.
     
  2. Raricar

    Raricar Karting

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    #2 Raricar, Sep 7, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2010
    "righteous Falcon Ranchero"?

    never heard of such a thing...

    However the injury could happen with enough hose pressure, like cutting. I have had compressor hoses blow and fly round the shop. Even a small brass piece flying on the end of a hose can hurt.
     
  3. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    Not sure what he means by "the O2 ring", but I have seen what happens if there is dirt or oil on the oxygen regulator fittings when you open the tank valve. The father of one of my friends was nearly killed by the resulting explosion and fire. Lots of 3rd degree burns that took months to recover from.
     
  4. Jdubbya

    Jdubbya The $10 Trillion Man
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    Any fiting failure on a hose with enough pressure could do a lot of damage, especially in an enclosed space. I've seen small and large hoses part with fittings and it's pretty scary. The 3" hoses put on a real show let me tell ya!!
     
  5. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #5 BigTex, Sep 7, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2010
    Never underestimate the potential for "dumb shop accidents"

    BUT, back when I was a tankcar repairman for GATX, I had a torch and lots of fun stuff..

    Standard procedure for shutting off the tanks was to use the primary valve at the top with the torch still flaming, trigger 'on'.......so you see the gas snuff out first, followed by the clean flow of the pure oxygen...

    *take a quick boost sniff to see me out to the car*

    Then finally closing the oxygen flow off....never did touch the regulator adjustment you notice....

    Flame on, the next morning would be a reverse of these items.

    Spark light a raw flame of acetylene, then tuning it down to blue with the O2.....turning it off by using the regulator itself to "0" isn't good, wears it out and a leak will empty the cylinder overnight...;)
     
  6. PV Dirk

    PV Dirk F1 Veteran

    Jul 26, 2009
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    If you want to play mythbusters you can put a high pressure nozzle on a garden hose then turn it on full blast. Wear a motorcycle helmet to protect your head.

    A loose pressurized hose can be very dangerous.
     
  7. dozzina

    dozzina F1 World Champ
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    Not getting it. All the high pressure stuff on my oxy-acetylene rig is at the regulator. Never more than 15psi going down to the torch. I don't understand what failed for this guy.
     
  8. wax

    wax Five Time F1 World Champ
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    O-Ring failure has been cause of many a spectacular industrial accident involving oxy-acetylene. Here, you can see stages, etc. of wear.
    http://www.allorings.com/failure.htm

    In tandem with weather and storage conditions, this chain reaction started due to such a failure.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg5CgNx_sJI

    Aside from the gas combo in question - most infamously, The Space Challenger Disaster was attributed to O-Ring failure. I don't care to elaborate any further on that subject.
     
  9. Peter

    Peter F1 Veteran
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    This happened to a co-worker a few years ago. Apparently there was a bit of oil or grease in the cylinder fitting threads (after the regulator had been attached...) so as soon as he cracked open the valve a loud bang and a massive flame shot out. The way he was standing in relation to the regulator (not facing it), and how he had his arm placed (in front of his face) saved him from serious injury. Still burnt his arm though...

    There is ALOT of pressure in these cylinders. Typically the oxygen ones hold about 2000 to 2400 PSI.
     
  10. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Five Time F1 World Champ
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    You scuba divers screwing around with blending your own NITROX need to be VERY C A R E F U L.


    http://www.dtic.mil/bosnia/talon/tal19960802.pdf

    Last page, bottom right. "Explosion rocks Slavonski Brod base"



    The whole story is 100% pure Grade-A, BS.

    I was there, IFOR Peacekeeper; it was my B-day. Greatest fireworks display I E V E R saw. :D




    An oxy-acetylene torch, three drunk Mo-Fos, a cigarette, a cement mixer and ..... Oh WHAT FUN !!!!!!
     
  11. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    The big problem happens when you open the tank valve. The high pressure oxygen suddenly pressurizes the tiny space between the tank valve and regulator and temperatures can momentarily soar to hundreds of degrees. If there is ANYTHING remotely combustible in that pure oxygen environment (oil, rust, dirt) it will burn, potentially causing the regulator to explode.

    Another hazard with oxy-acetylene torches concerns the unstable nature of acetylene. Acetylene gas is inherently unstable above 15 psig and has been known to spontaneously detonate. This is why you see a redline at 15 psig on many regulators. When under pressure in the big tank it is "dissolved" in liquid acetone that serves to stabilize the acetylene. For this reason acetylene tanks should always be used in an upright position lest the acetone flow out with the acetylene.
     
  12. UroTrash

    UroTrash Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Got it.

    Just added welding to the list of things I'm not going to do myself.
     
  13. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #13 BigTex, Sep 8, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2010
    It's actually "brazing" or "soldering", using oxy/gas......

    Welding is when you crank the DC voltage up and burn some 6010 rods on that sucker!!!
    "Gimme a ground clamp, on the other end of this tankcar!"

    "Is it full, or empty??"

    "I can weld anything but the crack of dawn and a broken heart....."
    Ferris Meyers (Deceased)
     
  14. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    What was the 'finish' rod??? 7018 IIRC.....

    Man, we were hard drinkers, back then!!!
     
  15. Hexnut72

    Hexnut72 Formula Junior

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    My shop teacher in high school who was a professional welder for a dozen years before teaching, told us that the regulator blew up when a fellow employee turned on the tank valve. It blew the T handle on the regulator into the guys face and killed him. Not sure if this was just safety hype or if it really happened. I have always had a healthy fear of dirty regulators on Oxy tanks.
     
  16. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    7018 "low-hydrogen", Great strength and ductility but takes practice to do well.

    7024 "jet rod", nice large smooth fillets are very easy to do but only on the flat.

    I've done a lot of "gas welding" with an acetylene torch. Small tip, neutral flame, same filler rod used for TIG welding.
     
  17. Jedi

    Jedi Moderator
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    In 1974 when I was in junior high, one stupid kid at the welding station thought it
    would be funny to point the cutting torch at the ACETYLENE TANK! Thank God the
    teacher saw him and stopped him in time. I can only imagine the horror in the shop
    class if he had succeeded in making a hole... I likely wouldn't be typing this right now.


    Jedi
     
  18. UroTrash

    UroTrash Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Please.

    Leave Dawn out of this.
     
  19. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    We were flat on our backs with a 20,000 gallon tank car over our heads......that was one STOUT sawhorse, between the rails!

    Air Jacks, Arc Gougers....we had all kinds of cool stuff.......
     
  20. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    Around that same time the unemployment office sent me on a job interview for a second-shift job at a local machine shop. I was to be a replacement for a genius who in a fit of almost certain drug-crazed boredom decided to see if letting a punch-press put a two inch hole in the palm of his hand was everything he hoped it would be.
     
  21. chrmer3

    chrmer3 Formula 3

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    Now that would make a conversation starter at any get together... Hide & go seek... would be no fun with THAT guy..
     
  22. KKRace

    KKRace Formula 3

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    The story as written doesn't make much sense to me. I've been welding and brazing with Oxy/Acet for over 30 years. A lot of people argue its the best method for welding 4130 tubing.

    The pressure in the hoses is very low as someone else stated. You want to keep the Oxygen regulator clean and free of oil or grease(which should be easy to do if they are screwed on the tank) and I always turn on the tank valves very slow so the pressure in the tank doesn't hit the regulator hard. I have no idea what the "oxygen ring" is they are talking about. There are no O-rings between the tank and the regulator. I don't even know if there are any inside the regulator, there is a diaphram?

    The story is either poorly written by someone with no technical knowledge or bogus.
     
  23. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Five Time F1 World Champ
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    You don't need oil or grease in a high O2 environment to start a fire. Almost ANYTHING will combust in a high O2 environment. Anything over about 40% O2 and you can have catestrophic incidents if the items are not O2 "scrubbed" and O2 compatible.

    I am making an assumption here but I bet there are O-Rings and diaphrams inside your regulator. It is just that they are made from "O2 Safe" materials meaning they will not combust when placed in a HIGH O2 environment like 95% of the O-Ring materials commonly used.

    O2 is just plain DANGEROUS stuff (fire) and only breathable in a certain finite range of circumstances or it will kill you.
     
  24. WJHMH

    WJHMH Two Time F1 World Champ
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