Inspecting timing belts in Testarossa

Pretty hard to see much in there.

 

If it were mine I wouldnt even try to start it, and I would disable the ignition until the issue was resolved. But thats just me.

 

I've used a bore scope to look at things I couldn't get to. The problem though I'm not sure I would trust what I was looking at. You would only be able to see portions of the belt and I'm not sure how you would determine if it was good. I would agree with Paul. The cost of the major is a lot less than the cost of an engine rebuild.

John

 

+1... I totally agree. I know you'd like to drive your new purchase, Brent. But what could you see that would convince you that the belt will not break before winter? I don't think there's any way to inspect the entire belt, and even if you could, it's still 9 years old. If it breaks, it would be VERY expensive. For me, it wouldn't be worth the risk.

 

http://www.ferraris-online.com/pages/article.php?reqart=SCM_200702_SS

 

Since that manual was printed, Ferrari has changed their recommended belt replacement service interval to 3 years regardless of mileage.

 

There's two important aspects to the belt. The first is that the teeth are hanging on and won't strip off. You have a slight chance of seeing this with a visual inspection. The other important aspect of the belt is the fiberglass or kevlar strands running through the middle of the belt that give the belt its strength and resistance to stretching. Those don't really lend themselves to an outside visual inspection.

 

I would be more concerned about the tensioner bearings than the belts ...unfortunately, you can't assess them visually!

 

That is not true, the teeth of a belt coming off is one of the problems of a fatigued belt, if you loose 1 or 2 teeth that can allow the cams to move enough to cause interference with the pistons.
There really isn't anyway to effectively inspect a belt with the engine the car. Even if you could the problem that might be there doesn't show itself visually until maybe a 1000 revolutions later, when your not looking at it, and old belt is an old belt I would never rely on a visual inspection. It seems these belts look great or are broken no in between.
It is not like the old fan belt days when you could visually see a belt gradually going bad and then replace it when it was down to a couple of threads hahaha. And if you didn't and it broke what was the worst that could happen?... the alternator light comes on. I would rather change the belts now vs. pulling valves out of pistons later.

 

I agree with what you wrote. What part of my quoted material do you think is not true?

 

Only to increase profits for its dealers...as long as the car is driven regularly, the cam belts and tensioner bearings should last 10 years and 50k+ miles...

 

We've been down this road endlessly.

I suspect that Ferrari made the recommendation change to keep the "blood-sucking lawyers" off their backs.

The bottom line here, this car is overdue for a belt service even by your standards.

 

I remember many many years ago strolling through a junk yard in the early 80's when Fiats were still very popular. I can still recall a row of Fiats and Yugos (Yugos are the same car, same engine). Out of approximately 40 cars, well over 2/3 of them had a shreded belt, with no other outward signs of any other damage to the car. Anyone who was around back then turning wrenches on that stuff know's the belts on those cars were a critical issue. And of all the things that pushed Fiat out of the USA, I believe those belts could have been a big factor.

To recap, starting in the early 80's the US EPA required all motor vehicles to carry a 5 year 50K mile warrantee on emission control equipment, and the belt was considered an emissions part. I dont know why Fiat and Ferrari kept on using the (by then) antiquated belt they were using, instead of following the rest of the world and moving to the HTD design, but they didnt. And the fact is, that old style belt is the cars weakest link.

Some of you guys really have your head buried in sand to expect that belt to perform to the EPA's requirement, or romanticising Ferrari simply trying to make a buck. The EPA arent engineers, and Ferrari arent the evil car company. Fiat said 30K on thier belts back in the early 70's, and to my knowedge it never changed. I have no clue why so many of you persist in pushing this issue. Broken belts and broken engines dont help anyone.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Toyota, Chrysler, VW and Chevy recommendations for belt replacement are from 100-120,000 miles.

 

Toyota, Chrysler, and Chevy all uses timing chain as far as I know. I think the belt they are referring to is the serpentine belt. Even with the serpentine belt you should replace it at 60k miles.

 

Nope, not for all models. I replaced mine at 54K when my waterpump went. It was recommended at 100-120k miles, but for just the cost of the belt, it saves doing the same work later. It was a belt, a timing belt, which is the discussion of this thread. A serpentine belt is like the old style a/c, alternator, p/s pump belt......for turning accessories.............a different issue entirely.

 

Toyota, Chrysler and Chevy all make/made cars with timing belts. A incomplete sample:
Toyota - Tercel, Avalon, RAV4, Camry, Celica, Carolla, Cressida, Highlander, MR2, Paseo, Sequoia, Solara, Tundra (these vary by year, some years belt, some chain)
Chrysler - New Yorker, Neon, K-Car (eeek!), 3.0L V6 enignes (includes a bunch of mini vans)
Chevy - Aveo, Metro, Nova OHC, and some Chevy engines have both a belt AND a chain (S-10 apparently)

So now you know different.

 

On my 348, I feel a key advantage of doing belts more often is that you also have the opportunity to inspect other things such as belt and oil pump chain tensioners, and also have an easier time adjusting valves, replacing seals, etc. etc. I understand that paying a dealer for these services is expensive, and so some may want to put it off as long as possible. But fixing things after parts have failed can get much more expensive than preventive service costs.

 

Sorry Brian, I was reading your post(#9) as if you saying that teeth don'/can't get stripped off. My response was saying that they can. If I miss read I apologize.

 

My bad, you are right Toyotas do have timing belt in some of their cars come to think of it I had a Toyota Supra one time, and it uses timing belt. Now I remember why I never worried about the timing belt in my Supra, it is a non-interference motor, so if the belt breaks no damage to the valves. I wonder if the Chrysler and Chevy are the same non-interference design, this would make sense to not to worry about changing the belt so often.

 

Lol!
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I would not be to concerned about the bearings because they have only been there for 15.000 miles, and they don't "age" like the rubber in the belts

 

sorry, but i would not have bought the car in the first place, if you cannot either do the major RIGHT NOW yourself, or just pay to have it done and factor it in to the price of ownership. pinching pennies and trying to wait until winter with a $25,000 engine explosion waiting to occur is foolish to me.

a 308 engine rebuilt from t rutlands is around $15-$18k, if you have a good core.

figure a used, not rebuilt TR engine is $25k, and a transaxle with the 512 Tr mod is another $15k, plus gaskets, fluids and assuming you are doing all of this work yourself.

no disrespect, but if you got the Tr at a better price because the major was due, then pay the piper and have it done ASAP, so you can enjoy it, or mothball it and do the work this winter.

i could care less about the toyota / domestic car timing belt service life. that has nothing to do with how these ferrari engines work, and the vibrations and stresses these engines are under. i have had 140+ cars, and comparing jap and domestic mass produced service intervals to ferrari is utterly ridiculous.

i have thousands of hours of training on Rolls-Royce Spey and Tay turbine engines, having been with Gulfstream for 10+ years now. you cannot mix and match manufactures service standards.