Question 1: Absolutely. Any C&P setup has the potential for the desired tooth contact pattern. However, as you can see, it is not always easy. In conventional differentials it is much easier because the gearbox is not involved. But the concept is simple. Move the crown gear left and right and the pinion back and forth until the desired contact pattern is achieved. Keep watching this thread. I WILL achieve it. Question 2: I'm sure if you really wanted to you could adapt something to attach to your quill shaft and spin it. But, if you put it all together correctly and follow all instructions there shouldn't be a need for that. Simply rotating it by hand, measuring your clearances, and double checking your work should be enough. No, triple checking is better.
this is not a hall effect, it is inductive effect. but may be because of different languages it is the same??? the translator is not always so good I think once on mel´s car there have been a gearbox problem before he owned this car. and those put in the helical gear because they didn´t have the right sensor recording and so they changed the system to the old style. this works without problems. in my BB 512 for example I put in the sensor recording from a fiat. not even 30 % of the F price and works fine how is it going with the disassembling? any problems? then ask.
Yes, inductive and hall effect are basically the same thing. Question - Does the older style still have an electronic sensor that plugs into the harness? The gear drive usually indicates to me that it is cable driven instead of electronic. I've never seen the older style so I don't know. I just read all of Mel's 8 page thread about his gearbox. He did state that before he owned the car someone else had replaced the gearbox so that's why it's different. Problems on my own disassembly? Other than finding time, not yet. Except do you have a suggestion for the tool used to "uncrimp" those end nuts? The crimp job was incredibly well done.
just take a pointed chisel. those nuts I would renew when putting all together again.for adjusting you may take those.
now I wonder more and more mel in the 512TR Gearbox problem thread you put in post 30 some pictures and there it shows in picture 5 the shaft not with the gear???? so another gearbox?
that is not right I think: a hall sensor (left picture, left ) works different than an inductive ( left picture right ) sensor. a hall sensor has 2 "poles" and between there rotates a metal with "teeth", mostly build in distributors. an inductive sensor is a coil where there is passing a metall with "teeth". for example the pickups and the flywheel at the TR or the dstributor in a BB 512 the older style is a small mechanic part where the electronic is inside. have a look at the pictures. this one is from a fiat but it also works on F Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
AH HA! So it is cable driven, just a very short cable going to electronic sensor. The principle is virtually identical between hall effect and inductive. They both measure the distance between "wavy lines" as they go by. An oscilloscope taught me that! OK, I'm going to the garage now to continue my "labor of love". Take a vacation to Maui Romano, I'll put you to work.
nice love you never get disappointed and if so it has been your mistake how do you know that for me vacation is work? when we have here in germany wintertime I sometimes go there where it is warm. so from about 1983 until 1990 always to LA and the area there. and the last 4 years to the philippines. may be next winter? but then you hopefully are already finished?
right, the oszi shows you for both systems rectangular signals. but for hall sensors you need power input, the inductive sensores are creating power, even the most inductive sensors also are powered to get better results
I love a good mystery! But without a solution I get....frustrated...to say the least. I'm now comfortable with this solution, at least that it was found. What I'm not comfortable with is the ..."why??".... I took me a quite a bit of effort to get these photo's to show this. But if you can see it in person, it's clear as day. After cleaning up the ring gear, and holding it under the right light, tilted at the right angle, with a butt pucker and holding my tongue just right, I was able to get a few shots that show it. My ORIGINAL FERRARI CROWN AND PINION WERE SETUP INCORRECTLY BY FERRARI!?!? That's my conclusion. Take it for what it's worth. This is the ORIGINAL wear pattern on the ORIGINAL crown gear, it shows the EXACT same pattern I'm getting when I paint the gears now. See for yourself. It's very obvious on the coast side, the drive side is a little harder to see but trust me, in person it's undeniable. I'm cleaning up the pinion now but it already shows the exact same wear pattern. Questions that come to mind: Why would Ferrari do this? - (This questions is rhetorical. I'll just shake my head in disgust as I have for 3 years about the welded diff problem...sigh...) Why did it seem to drive so well for 38,000 miles without noise? Should I leave it setup this way??? - No, no. Also Rhetorical. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
this is exact what I mentioned earlier: F did not a good job. but that is not unusual for F. at that time those cars had a long waiting list. 1,5 years and longer. that is why they have been more expensive after first registration then new from the factory. so they had to hurry to get them ready. and if you start hurrying on such a car it will not get good work then. the coast side is clearly to see how wrong it is. the drive side unfortunately is not so good to see. the problem I see now: the pattern original has not been right and the car has some mileage on it. when you now adjust right may be the diff makes noise because of the new other pattern. so you may meassure exactly the teeth of the crown if there is a difference between those old pattern and the untouched parts of the teeth. if there is nothing unusual I think you could adjust right ( not like is has before ) to be without any problems. but when you see something unusual you may put all together like it has been before ( so with the wrong pattern ) or take an other CP ( used or new? ) on the pictures it looks not so bad. sure we can see the wrong pattern, but when you meassure and there is no difference I really see no problem to use those again. but it will make some more noise than before. it is a decision of how much or less money you want to spend.
I thought I was lucky because my C&P was not broken. Now not so much. I will try and line it up correctly and see what kind of pattern I get. If it's too bad....I'll make the decision at that point. What a cluster....Thanks Enzo. Thanks a bunch
when you line it up correctly I´m sure you will get the right pattern. but it may take several attempts until the pattern is so as it has to be
To help get rid of some of the dark clouds: The old wear pattern doesn't mean worn out. And when you get it right, it should be quieter than before because you took such great care in assembly. Also, since it worked being sub-optimally aligned, doesn't this mean that the assembly and alignment is reasonably forgiving? Now this is a huge question I realize, because having the gears not mesh correctly means the power / load path is compromised resulting in higher bending stresses on the gear teeth. But, again, fortune is on your side 'cause those gears are so strong, they lasted the 38k miles.
I had a water main break in my yard this weekend so I didn't get much accomplished. Back at it now. Hey Romano, It appears that there are 3 different sizes of spindle nuts to remove both shafts. The lay shaft only has one nut and it's the biggest. The main shaft has a nut on front and back. I've been able to remove all but the one on back. It seems a bit smaller than the front. I assume it is necessary to remove this nut to remove the shaft?? Advice to get it off? Is this one right or left hand thread? The one on front was left hand.
oh sorry scott I forgot this nut has also right thread I´m not doing every day such a gearbox and mine finished end of last year. so I can not remember exactly all. getting older but end of this week I will start reassembling my next gearbox and then I can tell you much more if you have some problems. so you have both nuts at the front open already? nice, because sometimes it is a big problem to get them loose.
I'm having the most trouble removing that nut. Because it's inside the box and not easy to get to I'm probably going to have to fabricate a tool. I was able to get the other two loose real easy. Bt this one.... (((Sigh))) It's a good thing I love this car....
Those ring nut sockets are a MUST! Check Baum tool or eBay. Also, take care clearing the crimp on the ring nut from the shaft locking notch. The steel on those nuts is pretty strong, and will chip the edge the locking notch. Don't ask me how I know that One more question on the setup: How much resolution in shim adjustements do you work with? I mean is .010" (1/4mm) enough, or do you use finer like .004" (.1mm)? It's a sweet car! Fingers crossed for you to enjoy it soon!
OK, not asking. (YIKES! I wonder how much a new main shaft is!) But just want to say that they seemed pretty soft on the front 2 nuts. Had no problem loosening even without completely clearing the crimp. Still don't have that last one loose though. Your question about shims isn't quite clear. Are you referring to the carrier shims or the pinion shim? What I can tell you is that a diff shim behind the LHS bearing .010" equates to about .005" in backlash. Those are rough numbers but as you can see that's too much so .001"-.005" shims are required to do fine adjustment at the end. What kills me is that although Ferrari set it at the correct .005" backlash, they didn't give a squat about the gear alignment. I'm just lucky I'm still using those gears.
right own experience like those who did this once I use or I grind those shims to 0,05 mm ( .002" ?? ) and you will enjoy this car after fixing the gearbox much more because you then know how it works all. successful experience as a double or tripple: save a lot of money for the work, knowing how to fix and enjoying the driving
This is a question maybe already asked. If you just replace the diff. and the C&P pattern is correct, You should just have to to shim for backlash and pre-load? Ago
please read all what here is standing about this CP pattern problem before you tell us form shiming. thank you
