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Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by CornersWell, Dec 21, 2004.

  1. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

    Nov 24, 2004
    4,641
    Well, due to several past transgressions, my insurance company is finally denying renewal. Frankly, I'm not all that upset as I don't really think they were that good. However, I am now in the market for a new carrier. Any recommendations? While I'm located in the DC area, it doesn't matter to me where my agent is as long as the underwriter is national. So, I'm looking for high-dollar liability coverage and collision (at the very least) for at least two corporate-owned and operated vehicles.

    I could go for hours on the farce we call traffic enforcement, the justice system and the my state's Department of Motor Vehicles. I know that some of you will most assuredly will say "you deserve your troubles", and I will freely admit to being a fast driver. However, I am not an unsafe driver. I am a professionally-trained, former Grand-Am driver who doesn't see much wrong with driving fast on empty roads. But, I digress in my own defense.

    So, rather than seeking morality or "I-told-you-so" arguments, any useful suggestions for obtaining coverage? I'm all ears.

    Many Thanks,

    CW
     
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  3. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
    Global Moderator Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2003
    36,814
    Babcock Ranch, FL
    Full Name:
    Dave
    www.progressive.com

    or lie.

    {Lecture mode on}
    And, try driving like it's a road, not a racetrack.

    Empty or not, the highways and byways of America are not meant for 100+ MPH driving. You're gonna kill yourself, or someone else.

    Wanna race, hit the track.

    {Lecture mode off}
     
  4. cgperry

    cgperry Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 2, 2003
    504
    Chas SC
    Full Name:
    Charles Perry
    I formerly used Progressive as well - they were happy to issue a policy (albeit a heinously expensive one) when I had substantial ticket history on my record. When my record cleared up they didn't want to adjust their rates, so I switched.

    Now I use American National's Chrome Policy for collector's cars (www.anpac.com). I've been very happy with them (although no claims so far) and they even refund 25% of your premiums if you go 3 years with no claims. I've gotten a pretty substantial check from them 2 years running now. Only downside is a 5% deductible.
     
  5. tfazio

    tfazio Formula 3
    Classified Subscribed

    Apr 20, 2004
    1,863
    Michigan
    I have a friend who uses Esurance. Basically, everything can be done over the web or you can call them. They have very good rates for people with not the best driving record. He has never had to file a claim though so I can't tell you how quickly they pay up if you need repairs. Check them out here:
    http://www.esurance.com/
     
  6. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

    Nov 24, 2004
    4,641
    Dave,

    I wouldn't knowingly lie on my application, and I will certainly investigate Progressive. Thank you for your suggestion.

    As for your other comments, I understand and am empathetic. However, let me state that my predicament is due to two high rate of speed convictions in the past four years, as well as the DMV's own bureaucracy and failure to give me credit for points earned for years of good driving behavior AND two National Safety Council Driver Improvement Classes. Now, before you reply, "well, there you go, then: slow down", let me comment that in the state I live in, 20 mph or over is considered reckless driving. Considering the arbitrarily determined and seemingly absurdly low speed limits, many drivers are near, at or above this limit on a daily basis. I am not a weaver. I do not pass on the right. My citations resulted from a late-night, empty-8-lane-road short (several seconds) burst. I had already slowed down before I even spotted the LEO. The other was from a ride on a Ducati after being stuck in traffic and having the bike overheat and spray coolant on me (the only way to really cool this particular bike is to get some air moving through the radiator). Now, I know that everyone has an excuse. But, I have not once driven beyond the road, the car or myself. Oh, and lest we forget that these same speed limits were determined in the 70's and only begrudgingly increased 80's. They've stayed flat since their last increase despite significant improvements in tire, braking and suspension technology. In some cases, the roads are even better designed and constructed. I realize this is a very difficult argument to convince anyone of (especially ticket-issuing officers, hang'em-high Judges and revenue-minded insurance companies). Let me also say that I am most assuredly not a street racer. I ignore all challenges. Period. Perhaps I've sold you, perhaps not. My on-track racing career was shortened due to the extreme cost of fielding a privateer team (which I did for nearly four years). I do get back to the track several times per year to keep my skills fresh and sharp.

    Perhaps another problem is with the roads themselves. Signage is frequently poor, confusing and/or hidden. And, remember, a small infraction counts, too. Violate a minor rule and receive more points. We live in a crowded world, and let me firmly state that I am not speeding through the city streets at night blowing through red lights. You're avoiding mindless drivers, fearless pedestrians and aimless bicyclists all the time. We must also deal with construction and road conditions in addition to undecipherable and overly complicated or non-existent signage. Make a turn at the wrong time with the sun blinding out the sign (but the road is empty) and it will cost you several points. No excuse. Period. Now that I re-read this paragraph, it feels a little whiny, but it's valid nonetheless even though it doesn't apply to my own infractions.

    Now, let me comment for a moment on the Department of Motor Vehicles. the DMV stacks the deck in its favor. I had a clean driving record until I moved here. However, due to the DMV's policies, I could not have more than so many positive points. So, if you've had a lifetime of clear and safe driving, you are lumped into the same category as the same knuckleheads who just cleared up their street racing points by going to driver improvement class. Ironic, right? Anyway, that's the game they play, and they don't play fair. Next, I've taken a driver improvement class twice in the past four years and the DMV has failed to credit me with the plus points on both occasions. Their policies are unpublished. They are not forthcoming. They point the finger at the Judicial branch and say we won't give you the points if the Judge mandated your attendance. Pardon me? Exactly where can I find this in printed literature? If you go back to the Judge, he'll laugh and say he doesn't care about points. The cop laughs. The insurance company laughs. Everyone's laughing on the way to the bank at your expense. Curiously, this past driver class, the instructor's first words were that speeding is about the dollars. Now, if that's not an honest opinion, I don't know what is. And, this instructor is a full-time LEO. See, I think what rubs me the wrong way is that we're playing a bit of a game (drivers, cops, Judges and insurance companies), but they won't tell you the true rules of it. Call me ignorant, but until I had a high-speed citation, I had NO idea that with a clean record, I could go to jail. And, I'm pretty . well acquainted with the law. You must take it upon yourself to dig through thousands of pages of possible infractions to understand the true consequences of your mistakes. That's not right. Frankly, I feel that they're using the fine print to administratively extract every last penny out of the offense.

    And, let me also comment on the quality of drivers today. It is exceedingly poor. Now, the DMV is charged with issuing licenses to drivers that are competent. However, in this country, we do not train them anywhere near enough. Driver's don't take this privilege seriously, either. Driver's seem only to find time to operate a motor vehicle between other more important tasks (reading, eating, smoking, singing, talking, prettying-up and so on). While I admit to occasionally speaking on a headset, I am virtually 100% concentrated on the road ahead of and around me. We issue licenses to anyone that can pass a poorly drafted exam and drive around the parking lot without running anyone over. That's not driver training.

    Forgive me this extended commentary and response. I predicted that many who respond will be critical of my driving and arguments. It's only fitting that you have the full picture. I'd like to reserve the right to make additional comments in my own defense, if necessary, in response to other "lectures".
     
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  8. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
    Global Moderator Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2003
    36,814
    Babcock Ranch, FL
    Full Name:
    Dave
    The "Or lie" was with tongue firmly planted in cheek.

    And I understand the issues involved with your problem. I also understand the desire to speed when the roads seem empty and the path clear.

    At least you're willing to pay the price. Take the ticket, do the school thing, but, remember every action has consequences, and your getting jammed on insurance is the direct result of your deciding that speeding is ok.

    Not that I'm unsympathetic. I think insurance is a scam to begin with, and that many insurance companies are passing on the risk costs of bad drivers to good drivers, even if they dump those same "bad" drivers regularly.

    Good luck on you hunt.

    Dave
     
  9. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
    Global Moderator Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2003
    36,814
    Babcock Ranch, FL
    Full Name:
    Dave
    the argument above is negated by the argument below...

    Final answer is we have to drive within the limits of those around us, not our own limits, sucks, but that's the way it is.

    DM
     
  10. twoshort

    twoshort Rookie

    Jan 22, 2004
    10
  11. FarmerDave

    FarmerDave F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Jul 26, 2004
    15,179
    Full Name:
    IgnoranteWest
    Cornerswell, are you the owner of the company which owns and operated the cars? If so, you may be able to do what's called (in TX at least) a Business Auto Policy which is an endorsement onto your commercial liability and property insurance package.
     
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  13. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

    Nov 24, 2004
    4,641
    Thanks to everyone who's suggested something to try. I have no doubt that I can obtain insurance (at whatever the cost), but I am always cost conscious.

    CW
     
  14. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

    Nov 24, 2004
    4,641
    Dave,

    Interesting comment about who's the most appropriate judge of what's "safe" in any given situation. Actually, I had forgotten to draft it into my previous long post, and remembered only after I was in a meeting later in the day. The very same point was made by the instructor of the NFS's Driver Improvement Course. And, the answer is: the driver! Surprised? I wasn't.

    Moreover, much responsibility is placed on the officer issuing the citation. They can choose to not do anything, issue a warning, issue a citation for a lesser offense or write you up for the full banana. I get the full banana each and every time. I could speculate on why that is, but it would only impeach the general law enforcement's credibility. That's not my goal here.

    I realize the world isn't a fair place (women cry and sometimes get off, for example). An acquaintance was caught and cited for over 150mph in this state. It was the third highest issued citation here. I'm not going to pass judgement on his driving, but the point is that he lucked out when the officer quit the force before the second court date. He got VERY lucky. Some are, some aren't. I guess I fall in the latter category as I have yet to have an administrative error or strange circumstances lean in my favor.

    Let me go off on a tangent for just one second about my acquaintance. At the time of the first court date, the courtroom was packed with interested attorneys to find out the sentence. As is common in these cases, my acquaintance's attorney asked for a continuance (which was granted, by right). The Judge, though, was INCREDULOUS that this defendant was free without bail. He was ready to lock him up on the spot. Well, you know the outcome of the case: no witness = dismissal of all charges. Amusing anecdote!

    I'm still waiting for my good Karma to come along, I guess. Cheers and Happy Holidays to you all,

    CW
     

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