Interesting finding on F1 system.

Ouch!!

Thanks for the updates.......

 

Hoses are very inexpensive even here in the US if you go to the right place. A 575M owner replaced all 5 through Goodridge in Mooresville, North Carolina for $140. That shop does a lot of work for NASCAR. Those were all SS wrapped hoses.

 

Car company's use many parts that fit many models.
You just need to cross reference.
And you would be amazed ...

 

Has anyone come up with a source and part numbers of just the seals on the solenoid.. (2 black / 1 green) ?

 

I spent a bit of time on this the other night trying to cross match these parts.

I'm pretty certain the 195717.0 is not the part number but the form factor (dimensional fitment).
I believe the QPV 02....number is the part number as this matches the manufacturers code system.

I believe PPV02....is the pressure proportional valve and QPV02....is the delivery proportional (Q= quantity).
The difference will be one delivers a flow rate proportional to valve movement and the other a pressure drop proportional to valve movement. The solenoid will probably be the same.

On my car EVF (clutch) 3,4,5 (selection) are QPV02CK.002962A.

Engagement valves EV1,2 are PPV02CK.0002961A.

I've looked in the Eaton catalogues and the numbers are custom (I.e I can't find them).

I've found the same QPV as a spare from Alfa at £250.

There are various fiat/Alfa parts (start with 717.....) for the other types but are QPV10 etc and without knowing the significance of the numbers we'll not know if they will work properly.

Wrt FHR's question on seals I've drawn a blank with these.
I suspect the black will be plain nitrile. The green I'm not sure but you are right as providing the valve moves Ok if we can source the seals. 18 inexpensive seals will pretty much rebuild the power unit valve block.

Has anyone ever taken an actuator itself apart?
I'd be interested to see the seals in one of these also.
Providing the shuttles/bores aren't scored the hydraulic end should be fairly straightforward to rebuild.


M

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Credit to 24000 and Mike for the posts


Just my thoughts...

This seems to be the 1st thread in 15yrs of the F1 system being available that is actually getting somewhere with understanding it. It puzzled me that this thing was starting to take on the air of witchcraft, simply because of a lack of information as to what solenoids were fitted and what they were doing.


1. The entire system seems to run very hot given the pathetic heat exchanger for cooling the gbox and the proximity to the exhausts - which will do little for those seals over the years.

2. The power block really should have only 2 main weaknesses
i) the seals
ii) the accumulator
The pump only goes wrong, i would say, because some other area of the system has failed and is causing the pump to run too often and so it overheats.

I haven't spent any time on the actuators - that joy is still to come.


Ricambi has the Accumulator, so a reliable source of seals is what we need.

We really need to know what the green one is up to, it's not there just for a pleasing colour combination.

 

https://www.globaloring.com/oring-colors

Could it be this simple?

If you look at very similar Eaton valves the black rings are nitrile or Buna-N

Highly Saturated Nitrile for green. I'll look it up but as you say it won't be to make them look good!


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Now I'm curious to know what property/mechanical effect they were after by using two different types.


I'm doing a full rebuild at the moment - so i want to renew all the seals on the solenoids just to have a known starting point.

If we can come up with some part numbers - i'll be the guinea pig and try them.

 

If it's working Id leave well alone.

I'm just interested out of curiuosity. If it came to needing to do it Id look a bit deeper but not before.

HSN looks a candidate for the green ring as it has better heat and chemical resistance.

PS the trans H/E is as much about heating the oil as cooling it. It will be to maintain a constant temperature otherwise why cool trans oil with 100DGC coolant?

 

Agreed, it will accelerate the warming of the oil from cold.

My race car uses one very effectively - but it's also 5x the size.

Has anyone actually bothered to measure the oil temps in the gearbox ? (I'll be addressing that this time).
Most people leave it there until it breaks - which can be 10+yrs, i doubt it's operating as efficiently after all those yrs of crude have built up.

Based on the sizing work we did on the race car, I would say it's undersized for hard driving.
Wait a min - didn't they go and fit a rad on the challenge cars - now given that most challenge races were only 30mins each, then clearly someone thought it wasn't adequate in that scenario.



My F1 system....
No it's been a total PITA.
Accumulator had failed, causing the pump to over run, leading to pump failure.
But even after fixing that the pressure drops off too quickly, so something is leaking pressure. Now given the pressure is held in the Power block and that's where the pressure sensor is - i'll take a guess and say one or more of the solenoids is leaking.

 

I admire your all-in approach but plugging it in will help diagnose where the leak is and determine if it's power unit or actuator.
You need to do that to set-up the new clutch anyway.

If you change too much at once you may introduce new issues.


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Has anyone got or seen any detail pictures of the internals of the actuator? Any version at this point.

I can find absolutely nothing out there be it Ferrari, Alfa, Lambo etc......

I'm even tempted to buy a failed unit but the only one I can find within reason for some experimental work is from a burnt out car and to be honest, it is still too expensive and probably too far gone.

 

Check with Serkan at GTE Engineering and see if he has one beyond repair. He rebuilds actuators.

 

Cheers Terry.....I'm UK based so not easy but may drop I the shop when in FL later in the year.

I'm really surprised no one has taken one apart and put pictures up anywhere.

I sort of demonstrates that these must be fairly reliable....


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GREAT find!

 

Same here Elec/Soft Eng.

We could start a new thread on the TCU.
I have the chip/offset info.

Eric is super knowledgeable on flashing the devices and which variants of h/w can take which firmwares.

But it would be super cool, if we could get a bit more into the code of the TCU.

i'm of the opinion that even the last variants of the firmware seem to suffer a bit with lazy/riding clutch take up when in traffic. Just try a HK multi-story car park and see how quickly the clutch over-temp warning kicks in.

Who knows it may be possible to tweek a table or too.

Given the era - we are lucky they don't have any form of RTOS, just straight code from boot and interrupt handlers.

How cool would it be if FChat gave rise to an improved TCU firmware

 

I'll hold you to that 👍

I'm really interested to see the internals and how they wear.
Seal replacement should be relatively straightforward ONCE you have a source but what else wears? Do they require any re-machining/rebushing/engineered surface treatment like hard chroming? That is where the money would go.....


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How cool? Very Very cool!! In fact it would be huge.

 

I really doubt when it comes to operating software 'we' could do better than Marelli

I actually think the software is pretty good and most of the issues are poor set-up and system condition.

If you really have the urge to do some system development then try to design something that can be used to set-up the F1 system. Not all of us have and SD 2/3 .....Not the biggest market but I'd happily pay $$$ for it......it has been done by Texa and AI already. I believe Durametric (?) gave up.





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