Interesting twist in the FOTA/FIA/FOM row

GPDA also has openly stated their support of the FOTA: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75910

Looks like if FIA/Max insist on having things his way, the 2010 F1 will indeed become a glorified F2 with mockery made of great past F1 team names like Lotus, March and Braham.

 

Why 30 days? Why would this not be for one year, or forever?

 

Because at least one team wouldn't commit for a longer term?
Just when you think things can't get stranger.

 

Read the Massa interview. He said something about the teams agreeing to the FIA proposed budget in three years, not one. Either he misspoke, or said something that he should not have said in public. I do not think FOTA has officially stated this, but it may be their final comprimise??

 

Could be. Sounds reasonable so it won't fly
I'm resigned to the fact that we're not going to know what's really going on until its resolved. Everything being released to the press is just for effect.

 

Two weeks ago I was told that the FIA would agree to no budget cap in 2010, a reasonable reduction in 2011, and a final number in 2012, nearly double of the current FIA proposal. I just wish someone would toss out a real offer, not the backtracking FOTA letter of last week. If Massa is correct, then FOTA needs to not wait and just make the offer. I believe that the FIA will in fact turn down all of the conditional apllications on June 12 if FOTA does nothing.

Possibly there is a 30 day period after that when a team can still place an entry with monetary penalty?? Assuming there are spots.

I don't think the FIA should limt the entries. Let them be like NASCAR. If there are 24 grid spots, and 28 or 30 cars, no problem, qualifying will weed them out and they go home if they don't qualify. Now that would make for interesting qualifying. Puts the pressure on the engineers and the drivers. Kind of like when the Penskes did not make it into the Indy 500 and had to go home.

 

IMO likely because it means there is nothing Max can do in the next 30 days to break apart the union. And the next 30 days are the crucial ones because it covers the June 12th entry list as well as a few weeks beyond that.

No reason to make a commitment beyond that... it can always be extended or renewed as circumstances dictate more easily than it can be shortened.

 

Ron, Under the existing agreements is there anything preventing new teams to do just that?
As for the rest, we'll see.
David

 

Those days are gone... the time of F1 privateers showing up with trailers and their best engineered car are part of history, not the future, IMO. I'd ray non of the podunk teams would survive without a lot of TV money coming back to them from Bernie, and also significant sponsor money.

Who'se going to sponsor one of these rats when they show up and get 28 seconds of embarassing TV coverage as they show themselves to be multiple seconds off the pace? Nobody would.

 

Mike,
Do you know what the financial deal is with the teams? What determines which teams get what money?
David.

 

I can't agree with you at all and your opinion of what the new teams might or might not do as far as performance. You are guessing, and you are setting yourself up for your own "eating crow" thread. None of the NASCAR teams show up with small trailers, even the very back, backmarker has a large rig like Hendrick. I would think the same would be true of the new F1 teams. Although if it were me, for kicks I would show up with my car on an open two axle trailer behind a 10 year old Chevy diesel Suburban. Plenty of attention for my sponsors.

Prodrive and the Superfund team have as much money as the teams from Williams up to Red Bull, part of the show. The others, I don't know. So at least two of these newe teams will have every appearance of a professional F1 race team. And if there are budget restrictions, sponsorhip will not cost as much, so I think you will see an entirely new different level of sponsorship. If F1 sticks together, I do not believe you will see a drought of sponsors. They just won't be the ING's and the Vodafones of the world.

But sadly, there won't be more teams than grid spots because some of the current teams will be quitting the sport in the next two years anyway. We'll be lucky to have 20 cars.

 

My response, if you mean the potential budget, what exisiting agreements? If you mean the late entries with penalties, I understand the FIA allows late entries, stiff monetary penalty, assuming there is space. That will be the problem.

What is this FOTA bond supposed to do?? Who would be dumb enough to issue this bond?

I wonder if some of the current teams are on the phones with the principals of these new announced teams asking if they are for real? Racing in Europe is a small circle, most of these people know each other. And if they are for real, then FOTA will have a decision to make.

Am I to assume that ALL the current sponsors of the remaining FOTA teams are OK with these teams possibly not racing in 2010 and forming a new series? Sure seems to me that odds are this can't be the case and most of the FOTA teams will have to enter because of sponsors. But then, nothing either the FIA or FOTA has done has made much sense.

 

What new deals? Wouldn't this be based on performance and final standings so nothing up front? Is it possible that Bernie has offered money to some of these teams to enter F1, sure, but it can't be that much because Bernie is not in great financial condition. There is a lot of debt out there.

Just as Bernie helped Ross Brawn, he told Ross he would step up if no other alternative would appear, I am sure Bernie is helping these teams with finding engine deals, potential sponsors, etc.

 

But.... if 34 cars show up, and 14 go home on trailers.... those teams will be gone REAL quick.

It's no longer possible to be in F1 if you can't get the sponsorship and Bernie money... the vast majority of these "new teams" are just pie in the sky. It seems so clear to me that Max and/or Bernie are manning the phones and soliciting any entries they can, and to counter the claims of them being joke teams (which they are), they are pushing for the resurrection of names like March and Lotus and Brabham.

It's all a bit silly really, and so utterly transparent.

 

Sorry if I was unclear. I'm trying to suss out the economics of the new teams in terms of what revenue they will get once they begin to race. Does anyone who grids a car get a share of the TV money? Free air transport? Starting money? etc.

 

I just heard an interesting commentary on the supposed $50 million Euro, Pound, what ever it is, FOTA bond.

The crux of this commentary: if there was any trust amongst the remaining members of FOTA, why would they need to impose a penalty on each other? Brawn was not listed as one of the signators on the bond. Does needing this bond indicate the lack of trust internally?

The 30 day period has no real significance that I can determine, this entire bond deal seems really silly. The nature of the beast on that side of the table seems no better than what sits opposite.

 

It used to be, TV money, and travel money was based on WCC points, paid at the end of the season. Not sure what it is today, or if there is appearance money paid to anyone. Can't imagiine appearance money, you show up because you signed contract to show up.

I don't think anyone normally gets revenue, a signing bonus in this case, up front. Today, who knows. If this were to happen, it would likely come out of the till of which the current teams want a piece.

 

IF this bond does exist, it would be all about preventing a team from panicing and entering the series in the last hour without FOTA knowing. Of course there would be some trust issues in that the stakes are high and they do not yet have an alternative series set up. The one to really worry about would be Ferrari, not Brawn. Ferrari gets a last second one off sweethart deal from Bernie/Max and they sign up, leaving the rest in the cold. The only way a breakaway series would work would be with Ferrari. Ferrari seems most outspoken in the matter but who know's what they will really do. Even if Ferrari thinks a breakaway is the only way, they must be concerned that Toyota and Renault, and perhaps BMW and MB don't really have the stomach to finance a long term commitment in this economic climate. But even if they try, F1 get's killed for several years at best. The whole thing is a disaster and IMO due to Max going to far to dominate the sport.

 

With respect, we are not a mockery of the former Lotus F1 team. Of our current staff, about 70% (as of now) of us are former Lotus engineers. Additionally we are in a world class factory and under the direction of Mike Gascoyne. We didn't simply purchase the name unlike "Brabham" or "March". Unlike those two teams our name comes from an existing company that fully supports our effort and that we are still connected to. Our factory is just down the road from the current Lotus road car factory.

On the other hand, I actually fully support FOTA and their intentions as the series isn't the same without them and cost cutting can't be forced through rash measures.

Please think before you just open your mouth on issues you're not clear on.

 

Thanks.
As to the bond it may be a message to the FIA and FOM more than anything else.

 

+100 Correct
March Brabham Lotus just a pathetic attempt by Mosley to add credibility to his future F1.

Mosley game playing really is a sad affair, The FOTA wants this to be resolved, with common sense.

If F1 fans had a say/vote in the matter Mosley would have been history long ago.