Intermeccanica Italia Design Critique and mini-history (anybody disagree with my "facts") | FerrariChat

Intermeccanica Italia Design Critique and mini-history (anybody disagree with my "facts")

Discussion in 'Other Italian' started by bitzman, Mar 30, 2019.

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  1. bitzman

    bitzman F1 Rookie
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    NOTE: I put the word "facts" in quotes because, as with many a discontinued car, there is no solid source for anything. So let the brickbats fly...


    Design Analysis: the Intermeccanica Italia





    Frank Reisner was a Hungarian immigrant to Canada. Early on, as an engineer he wanted to build sports cars in Italy so he and his wife relocated to Italy. They started, building race cars
    in 1959 (the same year as DeTomaso incorporated) calling their firm Construzione Automobili Intermeccanica in Italy.


    The first street car they made to market in the US was called the Apollo, a Buick powered car designed by an young Art Center grad, coming out in 1962, where it won the best in show at the New York Auto show. That model was phased out in favor of a new design.

    But Reisner had tied in with an underfunded partner and the company went broke. Next they tied in with a wheeler dealer named jack Griffith.

    But again Reisner had chosen an underfunded partner, and a magazine writer --Steve Wilder--became an unlikely savior-. He renamed the coupe design the Omega, and took it to race car building territory, North Carolina for Holman-Moody to build out. A few were built but meanwhile Reisner had a open version designed, called the Torino (later to become the Italia when Ford said they owned the name Torino). That’s the car I am critiquing here.

    The first Italias were shipped to the US for sale in 1968, and by March of the same year Intermeccanica had moved more than 40 Italias to the United States. There two biggest markets were North America and Germany with over 400 sold between the two countries.

    Eventually after the Italia, they introduced a more modern design, the Indra, but then fell afoul of GM which decided to cut them off from Chevrolet engines as well as Opel parts (some feel it was rival Erich Bitter who
    engineered this blow)
    Not only that, there was a GM issued ban on Opel dealers selling the car in Germany. So that car was phased out and Reisner’s saving grace was discovering Americans would buy replica Porsche 356 Speedsters. His company survives today, though Reisner has passed on, in Vancouver with a successful kit car.

    Back to the Italia. One source says it was designed by ex-GM designer Robert Cumberford (who has sent me photos showing where he advised on the design) but other sources say it was Franco Scaglione who designed it, he being the mercurial designer of many an Italian car. Credited with the chassis design is John Crosthwaite.


    I think the spyder offers great style for the money. Of course it is difficult to say how much money because I have seen these go at auction for all kinds of crazy money (I define that as what you could have bought a used Ferrari V12 for at the time). Now of course it seems all V12 Ferraris are all firmly above $100,000 but I think you can still find an Italia for less.

    They have an inherent front end problem caused by the fact that Reisner had planned a lighter engine. He didn’t get that and used an iron block American-made iron head pushrod engine and the front ends deteriorate under that load.

    Another is weight. It was shocked when I lifted the bonnet of one and realized it was steel where in sports cars like this I was used to an aluminum engine lid.

    Still the styling is sensational considering the car will cost little to maintain compared to a V12 Ferrari. And friends that owned them liked them. I one time photographed one the same day as a Daytona Spyder and it sounded better than the Ferrari and felt just as fast around town. Of course, the Daytona Spyder is worth ten times as much but that;s still a complement that to a non enthusiast, they look comparable..

    Here’s my take on the styling:

    FRONT: Should have had covered headlamps. Technically they were illegal at the time but some have them fitted. The headlights look even better with a chrome trim ring. The grille is very modern, not too big a “maw” like a Ferrari 275GGTB. The bumperettes are a good touch, they give the grille more importance yet still protect the car.

    REAR The concavity of the rear inset panel is right out of The Ferrari playbook, but the taillights look like they were chosen on the basis of what’s-available-that-fits rather than designed for the car. The rear bumper is substantial as far as protection but not needed if you want a racier look.

    SIDE: The side profile is excellent, with as good or better proportioning, as far as length of hood vs. length of tail as the Daytona Spyder. The use of off the shelf mag wheels, unfortunately, gives the car a cheaper look, unlike say, the rival Iso Grifos which had wheels designed exclusively for them. If you have wire wheels it looks a lot better. The side vent's purpose is a little confusing. Usually these are designed into a car to vent hot air out of the engine compartment but in this car’s case the vent scoops in air—but to where? The car sits high on its wheels which gives you the impression it wasn’t designed for those size wheels, they don’t sit naturally and comfortably in those wheelwells.


    INTERIOR: The clustering of gauges is sort of Ferrari Dino-ish and practical but has a cheap look. The center vertical console connecting the dash to the between the seats console looks like a hand built amateur job.

    IN SUM…for those who can still find one under $50,000, I think the car looks sensational. Except for that front end rebuild problem, I think it is a near-exotic. And I notice they are now allowed some events like the Colorado Grand. So here's a chance to run with the Big Boys at far less cost.

    The biggest hing the Italias have going for them is the Ferrari-like styling. The second is low cost drive train parts. Third is rarity. Wikipedia says approximately 500 Italias were made, from 1966 (other sources say 1967) to 1972. Coincidentally there were only 402 Mangustas made and they are now above 200K and have arguably dodgier engineering. But whether Intermeccanica Italias will experience the same renaissance in appreciation is yet to be determined....

    Any opinions?


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  2. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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    Bitzman: Oh boy! This is going to be fun! Here we go:

    1. Production numbers appear to be actually the following-
    Griffith- 6 cars
    Omega- 33 cars
    Torino- 28 cars
    Italia- 274 cars

    All the above split between 121 Coupes and 220 Convertibles

    You will notice this is far less cars than many publications have estimated over the years.

    As for the front suspension, you are correct in that the EARLY cars do have problems due to Frank using parts that were overstressed in the application. However, this problem was corrected fairly early on, and the majority (208) of the cars have a later front suspension redesigned by Reisner. This suspension is fine and without problems.

    As for weight, #423, one of the last cars built, with air conditioning, spare tire, tools and jack, but without fuel weighs 2,948 lbs. I find that pretty light for a steel bodied car of this era.

    The cars did not have headlight covers due to the laws of the period in various countries and quite frankly, cost. Intermeccanica was always a "shoestring" operation and money was very tight, so corners were cut whenever possible. Different taillights were used at different times, as Reisner bought what was available at a good price.

    While the design is beautiful, the cars reflect typical bodywork quality of the period. However, they are quite nice to drive and, with Ford power, are fast.

    As for value, in the States, prices vary from about $60,000 for a project car to $125-185,000 for complete, running cars. Most have been modified to some extent over the years, or during restoration, and finding a completely original example is not easy.

    Without question, with the great looks and Ford performance, and being rarer than people think, they are currently undervalued.
     
    AHudson and dtona_1969 like this.
  3. Alpintourer

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  4. bitzman

    bitzman F1 Rookie
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    I had that book. Sold it. I remember I was disappointed that he did not appear in the book to be that concerned early on to re-engineer the flaws in the Torino/Italia as he was always thinking about the next car. I interviewed him in person decades ago--and was surprised that so many of his ventures ended badly, one of the worst being moving lock, stock and barrel from Italy to San Bernardino, thinking the city was going to back a factory there and then finding out once he arrived that they were going to leave him high and dry--he didn't even have enough money to retrieve the unfinished cars waiiting at the dock! He also has frail health throughut his career, die t0o one of his early jobs not protecting orkers enough from some nasty material in the plant.

    Thanks for the production figures, I didn't realize they had been so exaggerated. What about the car body seeming to sit "high" on the wheels? Was it designed originally for 14" wheels?

    By the way I seem to remember magazines like Road &Track and Sports Car Graphic giving the car short shrift in reviews and wonder if anybody else noticed thar when an automaker was a small volume automaker (DeTomaso Mangusta, Jensen Intereptor, etc.)who wasn't going to buy full page ads, their cars were savaged more by the reviewers--look how SPG revealed the tendency of the Mangusta to go into snap oversteer during steady state cornering. But if the automaker was buying lot of full color full page ads, the magazines bent over backwards giving them the chance to supply a second car if the first one did miserable in testing . I was a staff member of one of the major car magazines from '70-'72,
     
  5. MK1044

    MK1044 Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Those are really nice cars. They were shipped t the USA in 1967.
    I think they made 490 Torino/Italia all toll. I thin about 150 were drop tops.

    I had a 1967 Torino, which was the same car as the Italia. Power was Ford 289 and a 4 speed.
    The car drove very nicely. Perfect 50/50 front/rear weight balance.
    The weakest point was the solid rotor disk brakes. They were only good for one hard stop before overheating and becoming less effective.
     
  6. Alpintourer

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  7. DWR46

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    Not a bad car, but has significant needs. However at that price he can afford to do a lot and still be in great shape financially.
     
  8. beng

    beng Formula Junior
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    Bitzman, I have owned an early 1969 Torino for more than 15 years. I do not disagree with much of your comments and opinions but would add my own take, as follows:

    "I think the spyder offers great style for the money." I agree. However, many people have asked me if its a vintage Corvette. I see a passing resemblance but, to my eye, the styling is pure Italian (or, as you put it, "Ferrari styling")

    "Now of course it seems all V12 Ferraris are all firmly above $100,000 but I think you can still find an Italia for less." You can still find decent V12 Ferraris for under $100k but they likely have an automatic transmission and four seats. You will not likely find an Italia with a manual transmission in decent condition for under $100k but I could be wrong, given the recent market turn.

    "They have an inherent front end problem caused by the fact that Reisner had planned a lighter engine. He didn’t get that and used an iron block American-made iron head pushrod engine and the front ends deteriorate under that load." Agreed, and also because of the Fiat partsbin solution. I had a Mustang II front end hotrod kit installed.

    "Another is weight. It was shocked when I lifted the bonnet of one and realized it was steel where in sports cars like this I was used to an aluminum engine lid." Agreed. During the restoration, I had my engine and trunk lids copied in aluminum. Problem solved.

    "FRONT: Should have had covered headlamps." Agreed. You can get the plexi covers and metal surrounds (unplated) from ItaliaReproductions.

    "REAR The concavity of the rear inset panel is right out of The Ferrari playbook, but the taillights look like they were chosen on the basis of what’s-available-that-fits rather than designed for the car." Yes on concavity but, in my view, the taillights follow the shape well. I have also seen owners install round Carello lights that look more "Ferrari" but don't jibe well.

    "SIDE: The side profile is excellent, with as good or better proportioning, as far as length of hood vs. length of tail as the Daytona Spyder. The use of off the shelf mag wheels, unfortunately, gives the car a cheaper look." 100% on Borrani's making the car look more classic and elegant. Dayton wire wheels look cheap. Minilites might work, too.
    "The side vent's purpose is a little confusing. Usually these are designed into a car to vent hot air out of the engine compartment but in this car’s case the vent scoops in air—but to where?" To my eye, it just looks unfinished. It needs a stainless vent or something to break up the opening.

    "INTERIOR: The clustering of gauges is sort of Ferrari Dino-ish and practical but has a cheap look. The center vertical console connecting the dash to the between the seats console looks like a hand built amateur job." Here's where I respectfully disagree. I think the Jaeger gauges look very classy and well laid-out. Everything is where it should be intuitively. The electric window switches are also the same as found on Maserati's of the era. As is the ashtray with Guilloche engraving. Maybe you were looking at a non-original version or one that had been "updated"/modified? I have seen some really gaudy-looking restorations with faux-wood and Stewarts gauges.

    "IN SUM…for those who can still find one under $50,000, I think the car looks sensational." If you can find one under $50k in decent condition, I would buy it. Here, "decent condition" means no rust - ideally where it has had a bare metal repaint. These cars rust like only cheap Soviet steel can do.

    "The biggest thing the Italias have going for them is the Ferrari-like styling. The second is low cost drive train parts. Third is rarity. Wikipedia says approximately 500 Italias were made, from 1966 (other sources say 1967) to 1972. Coincidentally there were only 402 Mangustas made and they are now above 200K and have arguably dodgier engineering. But whether Intermeccanica Italias will experience the same renaissance in appreciation is yet to be determined...." They are really pretty cars in person and very comfortable. Not exactly sharp handling as a "sports car" but not bad for the era. The rarity factor is a plus. I have heard different figures but even if 500 were made, I would guess there are less than 250 remaining in road-worthy condition. But, that's just a guess. To my knowledge, there is no registry or anyone tracking ownership.
     

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