Investing in vintage Ferrari engines?

Tom Shaughnessy?

 

If people start collecting vintage engines for fun they'll probably piss off a large part of the restoration market, and lots of powerful people in the community....

IMO engines belong in cars. Preferrably the ones they came in in the first place.

 

I think the problem for a long time has been that the powerful people (rich people) ARE the ones taking vintage engines out of cars.
To be clear, I'm speaking specifically of people buying GTEs etc. for the sole reason of having a 250 motor they can grenade in their race car wihile its original engine sits on the shelf.
Now, of course, people are scratch-building tool room copies. Much better if it means real vintage engines don't get cannibalized.

Now back to Rob's question at hand...

 

Maybe it's just me, and it probably is, but seeing investment and Ferrari in the same sentence doesn't look right.

 

Can't speak to the current value but this was tried years ago in the 60's. Two guys restored old Ferrari models. They couldn't afford the V12 motors so as a necessity they came to collect old Ferrari 4 cylinder engines. Often the motor was in a very poor condition. It should be remembered that such was the state of knowledge and mechanical skills at that time the motor was often thought to be unrepairable. If someone was foolish enough to buy a broken motor they could buy it cheap! The wonderful world of serial numbers and matching parts was simply not part of the equation back then. The guys accumulated a good number of those unwanted 4 cylinder motors. Eventually as Ferrari collectors embraced every old Ferrari as a collectable their collecting efforts would pay off. They were definitely ahead of their time by luck or good fortune. Although no one could predict the run up in prices; they were too crazy to comprehend back then. To what degree they profited I can’t say now but the 4 cylinder motors did help support a number of cars they would restore.

 

It depends on the the cost of acquisition and rarity(both by type and by original chassis number). An original engine for a 250 TR(regardless of condition) is one thing, a grenaded 330 2+2 engine is another. It appears that the real values of Enzo era Ferrari are drifting downward. If you pay todays market price you will drift downward as well. My 2 cents.

 

Also if to high a price is demanded for that matching numbers motor acquisition in questionable condition there are other resources. Ferrari will supply a new motor with the papers. Only the buyer can say how much that asterisk is worth to him vs the opportunistic original motor owner...

 

had there at that time so many 4 cylinders been on the market?

 

Yes a fair number to choose from as people didn't want them, especially when there were damaged parts. Different era where skill and knowledge regarding working on 'foreign' motors was scarce or non-existent. The two guys actually hunted for those 4 cylinder motors and had them shipped to America.

 

Chuck (Charles) and Fred?

 

It was ALWAYS a better option to repower with a Ford or Chev V8 and sell the 4 cylinder engine. Why not?

 

The MAIN reason why engines were replaced with some V8's of American origin is not necessarily the lack of skills and knowledge at the time but the sheer unavailability of parts, engine blocks and help from the factory in Italy and also the inexistence of proper communication methods in the 50s and 60s. Internet, computers, emails, whatsapp and the like simply did not exist and it took weeks and months to potentially get a reply from Modena/Maranello, by snail mail, of course. And there were almost zero spare blocks anyway, with very few exceptions.

Marcel Massini

 

I have a 365GT block the owner of the car in England doesn't wanna buy (they have the non stamped replacement block from Ferrari in the car)

Been sitting on it for almost 10 years...

It makes a hell of a statement piece in the corner of the basement ...

 

Or Kitsch: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/table-9/

 

How about later cars that have a failure and no parts are being made or repairable (ECU, batteries, etc.), then what? The older cars, 250's, etc., usually can be repaired forever it seems. Doesn't this have a bearing on of all these long term values?

 

I often wonder what it will be like to maintain something like a 488 (or any new Ferrari model) in 50 years with all of the relatively low production one-off electronics. Maybe I’m wrong and we’ll have aftermarket solutions or the ability to fabricate replacements by then, but it seems like it will be very difficult.

 

If for you , investment means cash, then you're probably quite right, but, there is quite an investment in owning a rare toy with a magical engine and a gorgeous body to go with it. Of course you need to look after it, feed it, pamper it, take it to the medic , just like a living thoroughbred. I mean, after all what is extra money there for, except to enjoy life with. ( That is if you love classic Ferraris, and I suppose you do since you are on this part of the site ;-) )

 

BTW, I hate horses. They bite you and kick you. Then they die on you.

Hmm... are Ferraris like horses?

 

The best use for a horse is as an emblem for a car

 

Yep!