iPad for flying | FerrariChat

iPad for flying

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by rob lay, Jul 10, 2010.

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  1. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    #1 rob lay, Jul 10, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I haven't owned an Apple product since the 80’s Apple IIe/c. I’m a huge PC fan. However, I went to fly-in and all the pilots had iPads. They all had software loaded called ForeFlight (also available for iPhones and desktop). This software is absolutely amazing! ForeFlight has VFR charts, IFR charts, approaches, and airport info all in one - no more paper! They reload after they expire, they are clear on the screen, you can zoom in and out, and it is easy to navigate quickly between airport info, charts, and approaches. In addition with the GPS and 3G you get moving map and updated weather even at 14,000 feet! The battery life is simply amazing, 8-10 hours with full usage in a flight. Many pilots were suspicious that in daytime you wouldn’t be able to see, especially the approach charts are perfectly clear even in the Texas sun as white background and black text. Here are some quick pics of mine. I’ve only had it a couple weeks, but will use it for flight planning and have already uploaded X Plane simulator which is so cool and precise moving the iPad like it’s a yoke.
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  2. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

    Sep 25, 2006
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    Now that's a cool couple of apps! Running beautifully on a ~$600 tablet - Sweet :)

    Dunno if it would really "work" on an iPhone though?

    Do you get 3G up there? GPS is "easy" - But can you get online? ;)

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  3. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    I've only tested to 4k.

    Specs for device are 14k.

    I've heard as long as you get connected before airborne then it will stay connected most of flight.

    Only thing the connection will give you is updated weather. All the charts you download on the ground.
     
  4. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Sweet! - I'm not a pilot, but do know you guys can spend hours studying weather radar etc...... Plus, you've got the 'net!

    Understood - This is why I went with Navigon (land nav) on the iPhone - It downloads Navteq maps so you don't need a connection for it to work.....

    I reckon a nav system (albeit a backup etc!) in a plane that relied upon a 'net link isn't gonna cut it ;)

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  5. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

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    We forgot the moving map!......
     
  6. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    u know, I didn't know if the GPS or 3G did that?
     
  7. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    ohh, GPS accurate as heck! we were flying along and speed was only 1 kt off, alt was 200 feet off, but that's expected as it didn't know local pressure. actually the GPS was prob more accurate on the exact alt we were, not the local setting. flew over a small feeder creek and the detail was on the map.

    I have most of that stuff on the glass cockpit, but good cross reference and the approaches beat jumbled paper all over your lap!
     
  8. KKSBA

    KKSBA F1 World Champ
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    I'm old school: I need the paper approach plates... Eventually I will succumb. But, computerizing the cockpit has it's downfalls, just wonder about AF447...
     
  9. MaxPower

    MaxPower Two Time F1 World Champ

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    how did u hook up a gps to the ipad? can u explain?
     
  10. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

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    I'm pretty sure it's gonna want a GPS lock.

    However, I'm guessing (!) a combination of 3G & GPS is what speeds up it's ability to get an initial fix. For sure, mine "finds itself" quicker when in 3G range.

    Of course, once iOS4 arrives for the iPad it'll be even better :)

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  11. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

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    It's already in there (on the 3G version)
     
  12. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    My first 340 hours of flying have been "old school". I have seen the light now though. No more making sure you have bought the right AFD, VFR charts, IFR charts, and approach books. Making sure yours aren't expired. No more cutting out and putting the 8-10 approaches you are most likely to use on your knee board. Each one of my flights would start off organized. 3-5 different VFR/IFR charts neatly folded to the area I needed and in order how the flight would go. AFD ear marked for each airport I would need. All my approach plates organized Departure, Arrival, Destination, and Alternate. Of course by the end of the flight all those neatly organized papers were spread out left of my seat, left pocket, dash, between the seats, some still on the knee board, passenger holding some, and then others in the back seat!

    Imagine, all of those are now in that one 8 by 10" device with the easiest navigation between each. I mean bring up the IFR low enroute quickly to double check and as soon as you close it goes right back to the approach you had up, 1 click. I have yet to see anyone that has tried it and not fallen in love with it. There are many $2-10k aviation solutions out there that don't do 50% of what this $800 device does (64/WiFi/2G).
     
  13. MarkPDX

    MarkPDX F1 World Champ
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    The iPad probably has a better antenna than the iPhone...... but..... The iPhone only seems good to about 5000' AGL in my experience.
     
  14. KKSBA

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    I loaded Foreflight up when I first got my iPad a few months ago. I thought it was impressive, considering all the other products I've seen over the past several years on the clunky tablets.

    But, I still don't see how I'm going to attach it to the yoke and not have it be in the way and/or ruin my night vision on a dark bumpy IMC approach.

    How do you mount it, and have you tried it at night?
     
  15. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    I could see problem if you are a yoke guy, but I've always been a kneeboard guy. I still use kneeboard with just blank paper and pen for clearances and weather now (use to have my charts). I put iPad right in my lap on kneeboard for approaches, all other times it fits perfectly between door and seat.

    I don't fly at night, but the light off the iPad won't be more of an issue than light off the G1000. :)

    Flying an approach at night do you use a flashlight or is your overhead light enough?
     
  16. KKSBA

    KKSBA F1 World Champ
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    #16 KKSBA, Jul 11, 2010
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2010
    I have a light on the yoke clipboard that illuminates the approach plate just enough to not cause a night vision problem.

    I put all the possible approaches for my destination and alternate into a small binder, and then pull the relevant one when I get the approach clearance.

    For high/low enroute the iPad would be useful without all that damn folding. Sectional would be pretty good too for day VFR. I'll have to try it out for real one day/night to see how it works.

    I can't imagine this is FAA approved. What if the iPad goes dead, and your out of all your approach plates and maps? You must have to keep paper copies as a backup.
     
  17. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    I have Jepp charts too on the G1000, but talk about a pain reading blurry plates on the MFD! I can't stand that, but is approved. Don't know the details, but ForeFlight is approved for FAA, they get the data directly from FAA. Any good conservative pilot would have some paper backups too.

    The risk of losing your MFD and iPad is about equal to dropping your printed approach plate out the window or under the seat blowing back to the cargo area. :)
     
  18. Etcetera

    Etcetera Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Wow, awesome stuff!
     
  19. KKSBA

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    I fly a lot of different aircraft (jet/turboprop/piston/helicopter) that don't always have glass. The paper is just so easy to deal with. But, for the enroute portion of the flight, the iPad could be handy. My foreflight demo expired, but I will subscribe and try it out in the cockpit and see...
     
  20. PaulC

    PaulC Formula 3

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    Rob,

    A friend of mine created the ForeFlight Application. If there are any specifics that you want to know, I can pass along his contact info for you.

    Cheers.

    Paul
     
  21. Michiel

    Michiel Formula 3

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    Looks awesome!! Have to get an iPad as well!! Does Foreflight include a worlddatabase or is it just for the US?
     
  22. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    tell him the flying world loves him now, but hurry up and do a more robust flight planning piece (like fltplan.com or AOPA)! :)

    that's really the only thing its missing to get rid of everything but ForeFlight.
     
  23. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    great question.

    for the US you basically tell it which AFD, VFR, IFR, and approaches you want to download. when each expires it turns red and you hit update to get newest. if you go somewhere new, then you can add to your list or remove others to track. I have 40 different download packages right now including everything. that covers me from Texas to Kansas and Rockies to Arkansas. Later this month going to Oshkosh I will have to add some just for that trip.
     
  24. NV Stig

    NV Stig Rookie

    Apr 12, 2010
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    I was just reading on this subject in Aviation International News. I found the article online, showing the pros and cons thus far:

    http://www.ainonline.com/news/single-news-page/article/despite-quirks-the-ipad-shines-in-bizav-cockpits-25310/

    In doing 135 (charter) and I would assume 121 (airline) applications, it will most likely have to go through some rigorous administration approval, like the EFB (Electronic Flight Bags) do.

    But the newer airplanes GV, G450, G550, and I would guess Global Express (I fly Gulfstreams, so I pretty much keep up with them) now have Microsoft based Avionics, and the ability to access the internet while in flight. The 3G is accessible through satellite technology, costs about $4.00 a minute to use.

    We still use paper Jepps with a Q service for easy updates. EFB's are okay but have limitations. A buddy of mine had a problem on a flight home from Mexico. He was planning to clear customs in Brown Field outside San Diego. The weather went below minimums and he wanted to use Linbergh as his new airport to clear customs. As it happened, it was the beginning of the month and his subscription was considered lapsed in the span of his flight, he couldn't access the info he needed. ATC had to give him info for frequencies for the approach and basically talk him down because he couldn't acces the info. That he used a different customs airport than he filed was another seperate disaster, 90 day of paperwork. In short not a good flight. But it shows a real world nightmare using EFB's. I'll stick with paper until they work the bugs out.
     
  25. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    I used it today for 700 nm total of flying. worked great, I was almost able to use it for 100% of everything, but I couldn't get it to take my W&B spreadsheet this morning, I know it can, I just have to figure it out. I filed, departure, VFR charts, IFR charts, and AFD info all from it. At 7k I tried to get 3G and it didn't work, I didn't really need to, I just wanted to post on this thread. :) Once I also had it in passenger seat in direct sun and it has a heat level shut off, a couple minutes in the back seat and it came back on.
     

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