IRL Moving Forward--Guy, this one's for you!

I met a beautiful local on the second Rain Day of 1997..........thanks for bringing that thought back!!!

And I was in the thick of the final CART years, here...such ego!!!

I shake my head over some of the things with IMS management, but ......

*shrugs*

No answers here.

 

wow, a thread dedicated to my b!tching and moaning! I'm honored. thanks, Jack

I was a huge fan of the CART years too, but ultimately I think open wheel in America is better off with the IRL having "won" the battle between the two series.

done laughing? let me explain

The CART business model-heavy manufacturer involvement and owners running the series-was doomed to fail. taking it public sealed their fate. historically, racing series need one strong "benevolent dictator" running the shots. That's what made NASCAR the success it is. Same for Bernie Ecclestone and F1 (in different ways). The problem with CART was the idiots were running the asylum, and those idiots were hopped up on goofballs in the form of huge $$ from the manufacturers.

Tony George actually had the concept right-one person (him), who also happened to control the Indy 500, would run the series. Unfortunately, he wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed, and also managed to piss off a lot of people along the way. In the meantime, NASCAR saw the opportunity that presented and did an almost flawless job growing the sport tremendously in a decade or so.

Now, nobody-sponsors, manufacturers, fans-wants anything to do with Indycar. I'm not sure what the answer is, but it isn't GoDaddy girls, dancing Indy 500 winners, or unqualified chicks with big knockers funded by lunatic fascist dictators. And it sure as hell isn't executives from the rodeo series or TV packages on networks nobody gets.

The on-track "product" isn't bad now, it's just not great, and it is amongst drivers that nobody knows (with few exceptions), as opposed to the household names like Andretti, Unser, Foyt, etc.

I think ultimately, Indycar will only succeed at NASCAR's expense-either the economics or the product gets bad enough for fans, sponsors, or manufacturers to jump ship (and back to open wheel).

meanwhile, us old-school Indy 500 fans have to yearn for the good ol' days...

 

I remember when Indy didn't have 33 entrants. I always wished I had an Indy car in my garage so I could fill the grid. So does that mean IRL is stronger now then when they couldn't even fill the grid? This years qualifying was one of the more memorable.

 

I will always love Indianapolis Motor Speedway. It give me chills

 

remember the year they had 35, because Lyn St. James sued the IMS?

this year's qualifying was pretty good. or bad, if you're a PT fan...

 

Well, as any marketer knows, if you lose a generation of fans, you either don't get 'em back, or it takes a lot of time, effort & $$$ to do so. And, today, with so many alternatives, one can't count on high % anymore, so have to go with absolute numbers. Population growth helps, but only so much.

I found this year's(and others in the recent past) Indy 500 and subsequent Indy race so disinteresting that I really don't see much hope for the series to get much better.

Too bad, tho...

 

Before the split, this series was positioned as one of the greatest series in the world...
Drivers came from all over the world to CHALLENGE both themselves and other drivers.
the cars were brutally strong and the tracks were diverse like the landscape...
I will always remember Nigel Mansell and the way he muscled the cars around a road course. I will also never forget the way Paul Tracy and Montoya had their wheels interlocked laying black strips side to side on a restart at Nazareth.
I hate to take anything away from the series, it still has its moments, BUT, if they keep running it as a corporation, it will end up just like the US auto manufactures...They decided to stop making car people enjoyed and started watching their board members margins...now look at them.

GIVE THE PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT!
Bring back unbalanced cars with too much power! They are fun to drive and fun to watch.

 

The good thing is that there at least seems to be a pulse
at Indy again, it's faint but it's there.

Real racing fans will watch because it's Indy and even
though it's been watered down over the years, it's still
a big deal. This year, there seemed to be a lot more
empty seats especially in the Turns 3-4 chute and the
inside entry to the pits. But, even so there were still
(what?) 300k fans there which is equivalent to hosting
three Super Bowls in a single day.

The thing is, it's important to have an American marquis
open wheel racing series especially now that Indy is approaching
it's 100th Anniversary. It may be reasoned that they'd like
to have the series peaking again in time for the big event
itself. But, a long road to haul to bring Indy back to pre-split
levels of manufacturer, sponsor, driver and fan participation.

With Tony George out of the way, at least now there seems
to be a glimmer of hope. Even with a team of bean counters
at the helm, at least they seem engaged and interested in
moving forward.

For the sake of American open wheeled racing let's hope they
succeed no matter hair brained some of their marketing
antics may be.

RM

 

I was part of the recent old days, at least in the late 1960s and early 1970s. Being from western Ohio, the Indianapolis 500 was an automatic event. If you did not go, you had the race broadcast on the radio at the family picnic.

And then having a college friend named Walther, whose family owned Dayton Walther, and whose family had a car at the 500 for years, made it easy to get behind the scenes.

Does anyone remember an unknown driver named Juan Manuel Fangio driving the Dayton Walther Special at Indianpolis?

I was there when Sachs was killed, when Salt Walther went spinning upside down along the front straightaway. I was there when Foyt won #4, when Fittipaldi put the move on Al Unser Jr that won Emmo the race but took out Al.

I was in the garage and pits when people were complaining about the way the race was run by the the sanctioning body, and then they finally broke away and started a new program.

The new program got much criticism from the old school types, but they went forward anyway. Ultimately they would fail and go bankrupt.

That sanctioning body was USAC, the new group was CART. USAC replaced AAA.

I had no problem with CART, until the team owners started imposing rules based on pocketbooks.

Then the IRL came along. The split, with the money staying with CART. I thought as a fan I would also.

That changed rather quickly.

I bought tickets to the inaugaral CART race at Michigan. Which was planned on the same day as the Indy 500. People already had their tickets for the 500, now these moronic wealthy team owners expected us to shell our more money. I was pissed. I did not go to either.

I laughed at the karmic reality of the first lap of that race at MIS when many of the cars were involved an accident. I knew then that was a sign that CART would have to fail, too much greed, even compared to Tony George. No successful race series was run by the team owners, that was not going to change. I went to a few CART events at MidOhio, but only because we were heading to Cedar Point

So I went to the first IRL event at the Walt Disneyworld Speedway. It was actually a very good race. Had no idea who most of the drivers were, but it was a relaxed but competitive day.

Then those wealthy team owners that screwed the race fan decided to jump ship and join the IRL. That ruined it for me. The best day after that was when the Penske team failed to qualify for the race. Finally, I was "refunded" for having to buy to double tickets for that poorly timed Michigan event.

I have no doubt there is enough blame to go all around for the demise of American opened wheeled racing, not just Tony and the IRL.

I do see a resurgence, the races are getting quite competitive, despite the economy, attendance at the 500 was not off too much. I believe the sport will return to its former glory in the minds of lost fans.

I also believe someone will come along with another better idea, and we will see another change, like the one from AAA to USAC, USAC to CART, and CART to the IRL.

You have to give credit to Mr. Ecclestone for keeping his circus together, even with all of those REALLY wealthy team owners.

 

For open wheel and Indy especially to succeed and make a come back, there is one fundamental that has to be addressed.

The current cars are too SLOW: that's right S. L. O. W.

Bring back the days of almost 240 MPH qualifying and mid 230 MPH race laps. Otherwise, its just a spec series, not really worthy of TV time.

 

Speed does not make for the show, competitive racing makes for the show. At the speeds you mention, few drivers will like the idea of racing wheel to wheel.

I would prefer they slow down the cars, let them race, not parade.

 

Jack - your first two paragraphs are spot on. I stuck with ChampCar after the split and vehemently derided and opposed the IRL. I wanted nothing more than them to fail. The politics of the last two years when both series were running turned me off so much that I lost interest in both sides. Since the bogus "reunification" (aka Kevin Kalkhoven cashing out) I have not watched an IRL race. I watch only ALMS and some Formula 1 these days. Good racing, but it doesn't get me going like the "glory days" of CART. Since they got rid of Tony George, I thought I would give it another try but couldn't. I think the thing that is hanging me up is the current generation of cars, essentially the same bunch of crapwagons that have been on track for what...over 10 years now? (could that be right?) I think once they get some proper racing cars on track, with a variety of engines, it will probably be interesting enough to me to let bygones be bygones. We'll see what happens.

Of course, the pessimist in me thinks that the league is going to screw the new engine and chassis formula up...

 

I'm trying my best to remain optimistic that the powers that be will listen to Gil de Ferran when he says the new car "needs to be a beast". I started really getting into racing in the late 90's when we had Zanardi, Vasser, Tracy, Montoya, Franchitti, Moore, etc driving high horsepower turbo cars to their limit....man I miss those days.

 

I agree. the late 90's engine and tire wars, 1000 horsepower, 250+ mph cars were phenomenal to watch. I can't tell you how many drivers I've heard say those were the best cars they've ever driven.

hopefully the new spec cars will bring back some of that magic. a 240mph qualifying record at Indy could get lots of the right kind of press.

 

Anyone remeber the Champ Carrace at Texas that was cancelled because the cars were so fast the drivers were suffering from vertigo?
2001 I think
that was unreal....

 

In hindsight, where the CART team owners went off the
beam was when George held open the option for a few of
them to take part in the 500 and they passed. Had Penske,
Ganassi, Newman-Haas et.al. taken part, the IRL would
have gone away with a wimper before they ever got started.

Even though the CART teams would have had to start
from the back of the pack, they would have mopped the
floor with the first generation IRL teams on the track,
in the pits, everywhere.

The CART teams' domination would have been so complete,
the IRL would have become an afterthought and the whole
sorry mess could have been avoided.

Unfortunately, George stole a lot of money from CART
teams and sponsors related to the luxury suites long
term leases and this was an unforgivable sin in the eyes
of the CART team owners.

On the mere mention of the name Tony George, steam
could clearly be seen coming out the ears of (the late, great)
Tony Bettenhausen who'd eleborate at great, candid lenghts
his thoughts on the subject.

RM

 

"I'm not sure what the answer is, but it isn't GoDaddy girls, dancing Indy 500 winners, or unqualified chicks with big knockers funded by lunatic fascist dictators. And it sure as hell isn't executives from the rodeo series or TV packages on networks nobody gets."



But those are their best ideas ....

 

Excerpt from USA Today interview with the Bucking Bronco himself. This is hopeless IMO.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies/management/advice/2010-05-17-advicebernard17_ST_N.htm

______________


Q: Bloggers have voiced concerns about Indy hiring a guy like you with no background in racing. Does coming in stone cold make your job harder — or easier?

A: There are pros and cons. One of the pros is I have no background in the politics of the sport, especially with the reunification, where there are deep-rooted issues, such as what side of the fence you were on. I don't care. My goal is to take Indy back to the top. The con is you do have a blind spot. The difference is not knowing the sport, the tradition, the culture. But if you can't teach the CEO about a sport, how are you going to reignite America on Indy racing and bring new fans in?

Q: In your first Indy press conference, you said you would do what it takes to learn the sport. What have you used as learning tools, and what have you learned so far?

A: I knew I would bust my butt to learn the sport. I have been spending two hours a week for the past four weeks attending a class about the history of the Indy 500 at a high school in Speedway, Ind. Donald Davidson, an Indy 500 historian who teaches the course, is brilliant. Tonight, I am going to watch sprint car races in Bloomington, Ind. It's not even an Indy event. It's a dirt track. I just want to learn more about racing and other facets of the sport. I want to see the fans of that form of racing. I want to take it all in.

Q:I heard you never saw an Indy race until you took the job. Was it similar to a kid going to Yankee Stadium for the first time?

A: My first one was the São Paulo Indy 300 in Brazil back in March. My first impression was: the speed. I was blown away by how fast these cars go. It was a street course, and they were traveling upwards of 180 miles per hour. And then there was the danger element. On the very first lap between turns one and two, there was a wreck involving Marco Andretti, and another car ended up on top of him right in front of me. My first comment was, "Oh my God! Not even one lap into it." I was praying to God, let him be all right. I didn't realize how much danger there was.

Q:Every sports league needs stars to promote. At your last job, you "humanized bulls" to the point that people wanted to know what they ate and how much Gatorade they drank. I know Mario Andretti and the Unser and Foyt names from my childhood, but no other current drivers come to mind, other than Danica Patrick, mainly because she is female. Who is Indy's LeBron James or Sidney Crosby— and do you have to promote them more?

A: We have stars. There's last year's Indy 500 winner Helio Castroneves, a Brazilian who was the winner of Dancing with the Stars in 2007. (Scotland-born) Dario Franchitti. Tony Kanaan. And then you have Danica Patrick. In my opinion, we haven't created good enough story lines for fans to follow and understand and appreciate our drivers as athletes. Fans have had a difficult time connecting with our athletes except for Danica, who keeps pushing the limit as one of the greatest drivers in the world, which people respect. Our drivers have phenomenal personalities, and we have to promote them more. How? The best example I can give is this: I could care less about watching the Winter Olympics — until they start. And once they start, and I sit down and watch those feature stories about the athletes, I am invested in following through to see if the star wins gold.

 

Biggest issue is all the races being primarily in one country as opposed for F1 , and the cost to run the cars AND still have affordable ticket's to go to races . The cars are hugely exspensive to race with limited sponsor area on them compared to a stockcar .In the late 80's and early 90's I was amazed that the IMSA GTP cars didn't bury the CART series (Had they had bettr management , perhaps they could have) as they were faster at same tracks ran at , had a sponsor area that you could actually read at speed , and looked like a futuristic car you might someday drive . I always felt open wheel belonged on ovals , perhaps it's just a product of growing up in the midwest. One thing that has always bothered me , and it happens in all series , but open wheel in the US seem's worse ..... is sponsor names with nothing to tell you what they may do! I don't mean the everyday products we use every day but one's like MiJack (A large crane manufactuer) a small notation under the name like "A quality crane ......" sure would make sense .

 

I agree. As much as the Godaddy girls are fun to look at, I don't want to see them in the car with anything more than a Bikini on.
If it's going to be the Premier US series, it needs some ridiculous draw, Like 900+ horsepower. Stop making the cars so damn easy to drive...Make them un-balanced. Big horse power with little down force and maybe some gearing regs to keep the speeds down if that is their fear...Maybe introduce some sort of CASH Shoot out sprint race were they award cash and 1/2 points.
I know I sound like a redneck when I say it, but I love the Nascar truck races. They are enough horse power to get up to speed and little down force, mix of old and very young drivers, makes for exciting racing...

 

I finally got to this thread. I agree with almost all of you on your shared thoughts.

Yes, I am disappointed that there was the whole split, but I still want an American open wheel series. That's why I support IRL. So moving forward, here's what I would like to see happen:

1) Continue with combination of ovals, road and street courses. Different skills and technology needed for each. Series champ shows best driver/car/team for adapting to change. Brings back fan appreciation of those drivers that can win at Indy, F1, etc.
2) More race dates to bring in legend tracks like Road America, Laguna Seca, Road Atlanta, Michigan Mile.
3) Make it a true Americas Series by running races in Canada, US, Mexico and Brazil. As cool as Surfer's Paradise might be or Motegi, spend those dollars creating a valid, competitive series for the Americas. Could this get drivers from Europe, Asia, etc to want to come test their skills in this series?
4) Mulitple constructors are critical. I don't want a spec series. I do want it to be mildly affordable for upstarts to want to try to compete. It should not be dominated by the Penske, Ganassi types. If teams can pick and choose combinations that meet their budgets, maybe we'll finally see some new blood & some new competitions develop. I for one got real excited when it looked like FAZZT Racing was possibly going to take Pole at Indy this year. We need more of that drama, and I think multiple constructors is part of the equation.
5) I'm OK with the safety level we have now. I don't want to see a driver, crew or fan die. When Conway and RHR crashed in front of us this year, I thought I had just seen the worse happen. So I don't need the 240+MPH again. Faster you go, the worse the crash can be.
6) Better coverage and promotion of ALL the races. As previously mentioned, NASCAR has done well by this. IRL needs to get on board. IRL drivers generally are approachable, have likeable personalities, and have an international flair of sorts. IRL needs to get those drivers out to the fans. That will help bring the needed sponsors and their $$$ to make this whole thing work.

 

yeah, Marco was SWAMPED at our local Meijer this year, not! Probably 50 or so people.

Even the crowd for the pre race Kroger Nationwise race was very sparce last year, used to be jampacked for hours, 20 cars or more on show. probably 10 last time.

It needs to revolve around the 500, whatever it takes to get 50+ entries, international drivers, live TV qualifying and race. Build name recognition, at least DP helped with that. Then parties like Long Beach, Portland,and nostalgia like Milwaukee, Elkhart, Phoenix. Make the Action Track a round, maybe the Chili Bowl. The Nascar crowd will never get it, they may embrace an Unser or Andretti, Foyt.