Is 74 enough??

I’ve heard you can strip them out if tightened to a 90-110 like we do with lug nuts.

Fwiw

 

74 is good. Interesting post on here a while ago showed you would need to halve that torque value if using a good anti seize on the threads to achieve the same clamping force.

 

I've set my 360 Spider with Modular wheels at 79 lbs and used Anti-Seize and have had no difficulty at all.

 

That just means you didn't torque them to 79, you torqued them to something closer to 120 and the spec is actually 100NM or about 72 ft-lb. Didn't have any difficulties based on what??? It didn't obviously strip? You have had the bolts checked and they didn't have any internal damage or permanent deformation from the extra force? Or the wheels are still on the car so it must be ok? Don't get me wrong, they may be fine but you went WAY over the spec and that has risks of damage and unexpected failure.

 

Interesting discussion. I never placed Anti-Seize on any of my other vehicles until I read on FChat some time ago about using it on my 360 lug bolts. My other vehicles all have lug nuts and I torque them to 100 ft. lbs. What I meant by "not having trouble" is that when I torqued the bolts to 79 ft. lbs I did not feel that I had to apply any greater pressure than what 79 ft lbs would feel like when using my torque wrench. I have removed the bolts on one wheel recently and the bolts easily were removed. Again, it did not feel like I had to use 120 ft lbs of pressure to remove the bolts. So with that said, it appears that adding Anti-Seize increases the ft lbs of pressure by 50%? (79 ft lbs torque + anti-seize = approx 120 actual ft lbs of torque)

 

The shift may be as low as 30-35% but it is significant. All torque specs are done on a dry bolt. There are some long threads on this and a number of studies have been done.

 

Got it. I will re torque them now to 74. Thanks for the clarification.

 

Ferrari wheel bolts are M14 x 1.5. The torque spec is 98 N-M which is 72.28 Ft-lbs.

Use 90 Ft lbs. While I had success for years at the spec, I once almost lost a wheel (however, it was refinished so that's another story). I've been using 90 ft lbs for years and many techs use 90 as well.

 

Dave, are you suggesting 90 ft. lbs even if using Anti-Seize or is that a dry torque setting? thanks

 

Dry.

 

Use what the manual says dry clean threads. Do not use anti-seize. I only use beam torque wrenchs. Clickers are notoriously out of calibration and unreliable. A beam is stupid simple. In 100 years the beam will still be there for you.

Interestingly there is a thread her on Fchat where guys were at a Ferrari of "whoever" track day and wheels fell off one or more 430's. I can't remember exact details. Ferrari factory came back and said use more ft-lbs when tracking. I can't remember the number. Someone smarter than me can search it.

I extensively race I always use higher than factory specs on street cars converted to racecars but under the limit for the fastener size. There are general rules of thumb for diameter/pitch/material.

 

It's not been my experience. I had one calibrated a couple years ago and it was 10 years old and still in specification.

When using those, it's good practice to set them to zero after each use so they don't develop a "set"

 

You can use anti seize on the hub. Even a little grease works.

 

A beam follows simple laws of physics. Physics works. A clicker has a bunch of moving parts that increase your chance of failure. Calibration is but one failure mode. About the only wheel failure we see on race tracks are wheels falling off.

 

No beam torque wrenches are used in many industries including aerospace. They work just fine, Carl. And all measuring instruments should be calibrated - I spend thousands annually having all of ours done.

 

Thanks fbb. I was always told never to put anything on lugs and never do. Thanks for reinforcing that.


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Yes! And when was the last time johnny six pack calibrated his harbor freight torque wrench? OTOH a hillbilly in west virginia could have a beam torque wrench with some rust on it and it would still follow the laws of physics as long as the rust did not compromise the beam of steel.

 

I would also not put anything on the hub face. It should be dry too. Grease on the hub face attracts dirt. Wheel on/off can trap dirt between the wheel and hub face making for wrong torque and loosing a wheel. The reason the guy got his wheel stuck is most likely an OEM wheel. OEM wheels are hub centric and often can bind on the hub. That is a good thing! They are easy to remove just like a bearing race not going in its seat perfectly straight makes for a bad day.

 

The wheel pilot (1/4 tall at best) can most certainly have anti-seize or grease applied. This is common practice. Once the wheel is installed, it's contained. It won't affect torque at all. Common sense would suggest to wipe clean and reapply each wheel change.

Now, I don't do this on my Ferrari because it does not see the elements but it's a must on my BMW used for winter.

 

If the rotor hub and wheel are both aluminum, and I think they are on Ferraris, there should be no need to lube the hub face. A reason to do that on other cars where the metals are dissimilar is because the galvanic reaction could fuse the two surfaces together.

To get back to the original question, the torque value seems low, but that’s only because most other cars use smaller diameter lugs or wheel bolts. 74 ft-lbs should be plenty for the large diameter bolts on our cars. Go to 80 if you want, but I would certainly not use lube on the threads as others noted.


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The wheel bearing pilot is typically steel.

 

Hi Bob,

I too have Titanium Lug Bolts.

I believe the workshop manual says to torque Titanium Lug Bolts first to 25nm, then 50nm, the final torque of 100nm.

Dan

 

I have used 1/3 less torque and i believe it's what anti-seize recomends ?