Suppose you buy a 964 from a knowledgable owner or a reputable dealer, the car passes a PPI, do these cars tend to be "needy"? Specifically, I would be looking at non-turbo, non-4WD, either coupe or targa. Thanks fellas!
Actually they had a number of issues, from engine leaks, to a bad flywheel design, to body work that trapped moisture. You can find a sympathetic overview from a 964 fan here: http://www.porsche964.co.uk/ on the 'Biography' page. Much more detail in buyers guides and on rennlist.com. My brother had a 1992 targa for a couple of years and while it was not a good car Porsche did take care of him with regard to the biggest issue (engine leak/reseal). Presumably you'd be looking to buy one that had all the fixes/updates in place. Relative to the 911 and 993, the 964 is pretty needy. Relative to a vintage Ferrari, it is maintenance free.
No, they're not needy. They are just a bit more expensive to service than the models that preceeded and succeeded them. The reason is that the 3.6L motor in the 964 is harder to get to than the one in the 3.2 Carrera that came before it. Plus, it has twice the spark plugs. The 964 is also the last 911 to require periodic valve adjustments, which adds to the routine maintenance bills. The 993 has hydraulic tappets that don't require this, so they are less labor intensive. All this being said, a good 964 is a very good 911 that was built during the end of the "cost no object" days at Porsche, so the quality of construction and materials is well above what they have had since. Common wisdom dictates that you stick to the '92 and later cars because they had the updated Luk dual-mass flywheels that didn't fail, the distributor vent update to prevent the belts from snapping, and the updated cylinder head and gasket design that cured the leaks that many cars suffered. The reality is, by now, most of the better maintained earlier cars have had these updates as well, so a good PPI is the best guide for purchase. I have had three 964's over the years and I found them to be slightly more heavy-duty feeling than the 993, but similar to drive in many respects. They also have the great view from behind the wheel, with the old-fashioned upright 911 fenders guiding your way. Great cars.
i had a 1992 for 2.5 years. it had the upgrades done and was well maintained throughout its life. the only recurring problem i had was a dead battery in the winter. had to use a trickle charger or drive it every day. the DME relay failed once. otherwise, it always started and ran without issue. i think now that the initial problems have been resolved over time, getting a sorted car should not cause drama.
I drove on the street, then raced an RS America for years. It was bulletproof. We currently own a '92 Cabriolet - no problems. The 964 is IMO an unloved series of 911, but in my personal experience with 4 of them, they have been great cars.
If it's a later 964- 1992 1/2 to 1994, or an earlier with the clutch/engine seal issue taken car of (by 92 1/2 this was corrected), they are excellent cars. The vices get overblown given that probably 95%+ of the pre '93 cars have been fixed by now, and the 964 is an excellent car- I had one for 7+ years and the only reason I sold was to move to ferrari. For detailed questions you need to go to rennlist.com in the 964 section. A lot of information there. If a good owner had the car and PPI is fine, the car will be great. To use the cleche, they don't build them like that anymore- the 964 combines the classic front fender and round headlight look with modern engineering updates compared to the '89 and prior cars (aerodynamics, handling/suspension, shifting, engine torque). No heavy use of plastics like the '99 and later 911s. Over the past 20 years I have had a '78, an '87 and '93- the '93 was my favorite of the three. -Andrew
Andrew, Your '93 was awesome! I remember the first time I saw it at Todd's house before the '93 Garden State Fall Festival.
If you know what to look for they are just fine. Problem is, you have got to know what to look for. They are also old enough now that almost everything that was a problem was fixed once or twice over already with updated parts. I love 964's..........sold them when they were new at the dealer, have personally owed several, and sold over 100 used ones over the years, as well as paid lots of service bills for the simplest things to totally rebuilt engines.
I have owned my "93 cab. since new. Just replaced the clutch last spring at 87K for the first time and needed a new steering rack last summer. A few years ago I had to replace the motor for the top, but I think that was because it was binding and burned it up. Works great now. Other than that, I never had a problem that either I nor my mechanic could not solve in under a few minutes. Had a weird thingy with the interior light wanting to stay on one time draining the battery, but traced it to a frayed wire to the boot light. Other that that, just change the oil, tires, brakes, belts and do the valves every 15K and no worries. I used it as a daily driver when I first got it, but now barely sees 1K a year and it has never left me stranded. I keep it on a charger. Pictured with my other steed. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Forgot to mention, when I had the engine out for the clutch, I replaced the oil return tubes, spark wires, and some other minor things (resprayed the inner tin, new rubber wire seals..you get it...... made it look new) just because the engine was out and it makes sense. Those things were for precautionary purposes and common sense, not because of failure. Never seen a hint of rust. I also dropped in a 993 stereo because the CD player in mine stopped working and Alpine stopped making the part to fix it.(Becker made the 993) I still have the original for concourse. The 993 stereo has PORSCHE on it and no one knows the difference unless they own one of that era. Like another poster mentioned, nothing like looking out over those great tits of an old 911's front from the driver's seat. I took my bottom engine shield off (stored in garage) a few years ago, as you may read about. It does not appear to effect engine temp. as some may suggest in my area (VA.) If you are in a hot climate it may be of concern. My car has never run hot, even in traffic. Great engine sound and performance for an early 90's car. God and Enzo forgive me, but it will run circles around a 348 from the same era at half the price and all the fun. Rear tire wear can be expected according to how you drive. When I was running it as a daily, I would replace 2 rears for each front. Find a nice one, I have seen many people try and cheap out and to get a deal. Those are the same cars sitting in the same spot each time I bring mine in for an afternoon quick oil change.
I've owned a '92 Euro Cup, a '93 RS America track car, and a '94 Rs America street car---all bulletproof and a blast to drive.
problems with 1991/964 there were no head gaskets had to remove engine,to fix leaky problem 993 is BULLET PROOF..1996-1998..last of the air cooled 282 hp or more with chip the most beautiful body style ...ever...& still is 993
I'd say they're about the least collectible 911's. Not unless it's a rare model probably not worth taking up finite garage space over. If space isn't a problem take a shot at it.
Buy a 92+ and you will be very happy. They will appreciate soon and are very undervalued. The drive is far more involved than a 993. The 964RS has skyrocketed in value as the Turbo's, the N/A is steady and appreciating. Nothing catastrophic to worry about like 993 valve or 996 engine failures. Problem areas all models, most have been resolved by know. 1. headgasket 2. climate control 3. twin spark distributor 4. double mass fly wheel 5. all-wheel drive pros 1 300 man hours to build 2. lightest NA vs 993 996 3. in the right hands faster than 993 at the track 4. World record quarter mile run for Porsche Turbo 5. value & appreciation 6 reliability
You talking about Eddie Bello's car? I sold that car to him back in 2006, when it was still a stock 1994 C2 Coupe. This is how it looked when I sold it to him. He told me he was going to make a turbocharged monster out of it. I'd say he achieved that. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Kool, even more impressive it started as NA white wheels on white nice, I assumed it was C2 T from start. Nordschleife Porsche 964 Turbo 3.3 (320hp) 8:08.71 ** 152 '91 320 / 1470 best motoring Porsche 993 GT2 8:09.3 152 '95 430 / 1290 Sportauto Porsche 993 Turbo 3.6 factory kit 8:12 151 '97 430 / 1506 sportauto Dodge Viper SRT-10 8:13 150 '05 506 / 1600 Sport Auto
You've also got to watch closely for leaking "case bolt O-rings" on these engines if they have been apart once before. The majority of engine oil leakage issues "today" are from poor re-assembly with substandard cheap gaskets (very common unfortunately as a shop can make $500+ profit by using cheaper aftermarket gasket kits versus OEM) a lack of suitable (and it's expensive) gasket sealant, or not taking the time to do it right, or not really knowing what you are doing.
Actually, the wheels were the only mod. I had the centers painted white to match the car after seeing one like that in the '93 factory 911 Brochure. They were done exactly how they would have been done by the factory, with just the centers painted and not the outer lips. I thought it looked pretty good that way.
The only cars that had no head gaskets were the early 1990 and maybe some 1991 cars. If they leaked in the early years porsche paid to fix it. If they leaked subsequently it was likely replaced by now (check records). The 993s had their own issues with check engine lights (OBD II) and the security system (drive-block system)- no car has zero issues- in my mind a 964 is just as reliable as a 993.
Wow- that's going back (but I think you meant 2003 not '93 )! Are you in New Jersey again? I sold the 964 this spring (since I bought a 360) to a guy in Germany- I had several people calling me from Germany when I put the car up for sale- the car was a 26,000 mile black/black convertible- the Germans were saying it was tough to find clean cars over there (and they like us find the air cooled cars "special")
Yes, 2003. Oops! During my time at Holt Motorsports, I fielded tons of inquiries from Germany. In fact, we had several German customers, both individuals and dealers alike, fly over to inspect our cars. They said the same thing, that good air-cooled cars were becoming scarce and the U.S. cars typically had easier lives. That is not to say that the Europeans don't take care of their cars. Far from it. But because they tend to drive their cars much more (and harder), there are few over there in great shape with low mileage.
I had to do a double-take on that, only because I definitely remember Eddie's car back in '97-'99.. but I didn't realize he sold the original. Sweet Jebus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo7EdE3QMp8&feature=channel
Sorry for somewhat hijacking here, but can someone recommend a place for a PPI in the Los Angeles area? I'm in the market for a 964 and would want to do the due diligence before the purchase. Thank you!
